Wednesday, June 28, 2006
McGuinness: Free Presbyterian Taliban…
Martin McGuinness is clearly gunning for the DUP in the propaganda war. His latest line is to characterise the Free Presbyterians in the DUP as the Taliban. Hmmm… Can’t see it taking off somehow… The wider news agenda is likely to throw the comparison into an awkward light: for example, here and here.
Mick Fealty @ 08:04 AM
after the BBC revealed an NIO document showed how much the DUP could lose if the devolution deadline was not met.
Why should there be an emphasis on the funding of one particular party? Just recently UUP funding was also under scrutiny but AFAIK there’s been no official comment about/investigation into the funding of other political parties, especially those that are ‘wings’ of paramilitary organisations.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:30 AMWhat does that make him? America?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:36 AMNevin where have you been living? The reason why the emphasis is on the DUP is because there would now be a devolved government running in NI if the DUP would only negotiate with SF. Keep up Nevin, go to the bottom of the class.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:40 AMMy My Martin is irked that the DUP sent a team of people who didn’t roll over and play dead. How impertinent of them.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:42 AMJohn, it seems I anticipated Mick’s other thread. We can continue the debate there ..
[There’s something odd about the times listed for the opening posts]
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:52 AMJohn
Pulling the plug on assembly funding would have a disatrous affect on the UUP, SDLP and APNI - the DUP and Sinn Fein, while in monetary terms, would lose most, as a percentage of income would probably lose least. So if Hain wants to flush whats left of the centre-ground down the toilet, go ahead big lad!
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 08:56 AMInteresting release of hansard details on the preparation for government committee. the dups are ignoring the chaiman of the committeee and engaging directly with sinn fein. while mcGuiness refers to the taliban the dups team includes party chairman (morrow) vice chairman (mcCrea) and jnr to keep papa doc in the picture. seems the dups want the deal to be seen as ‘the party’ deal rather than ‘the politicians’ deal.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 09:16 AMThats good! There’s a certain sense of pride when one has relatives in the
TalibanFree P Church I’m so proud :-)Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 09:18 AMdo the taliban not partake of the “devils buttermilk” either?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 10:38 AMWould people here accept the mocking of the catholic faith in the way they are happy to embrace the ridicule of the free presbyterian faith?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 11:01 AMFair point Tafabo. And one that could have been included in the above.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 11:06 AMTafkabo lets ask the question in a different way.
“Would people here accept the mocking of Free Presbyterian, which totally respects the catholic church, as unacceptable behaviour?”
It doesn’t reflect what really happens, does it?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 11:12 AMJohn.
Name me one religion which doesn’t have views or practices you find objectionable?
Personally, I find the stance on homosexuality by most major world religions to be offensive.But, I respect peoples right to practice their faith and think it is wrong to single one out as ripe for ridicule (as opposed to satire)on the grounds that it has flaws.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 11:53 AMTakkabo,
“Would people here accept the mocking of the catholic faith in the way they are happy to embrace the ridicule of the free presbyterian faith?”
Yes
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 12:26 PMOne of the best lines is.
“On Monday, DUP leader Ian Paisley accused the government of “blackmail” and said the tactic would not work”And he’s the one to know - after all he wrote the training manual on politcal blackmail.
TAFKABO - could you give iz some info on Free P’ism? Having been brought up an ignorant peasant all I know about it is that Papa Doc set up when he realised that he should be the head of the church, as well as of his own orange order (or something like that)
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 12:29 PMcircles,
Slightly inaccurate in detail but you have the sense of it right. Whatever the Free Presbyterian Church is, it is not Presbyterian.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 12:35 PMCircles.
I’m not a free Presbyterian, so I’m not in a position to talk about their beliefs.But I do know that your understanding of the free P church is reminiscent of people telling me that Henry VIII started the protestant church simply so he could marry again.
Ever get the feeling that there’s a theme in your reasoning?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 12:38 PM“The 1530’s witnessed Henry’s growing involvement in government, and a series of events which greatly altered England, as well as the whole of Western Christendom: the separation of the Church of England from Roman Catholicism. The separation was actually a by-product of Henry’s obsession with producing a male heir; Catherine of Aragon failed to produce a male and the need to maintain dynastic legitimacy forced Henry to seek an annulment from the pope in order to marry Anne Boleyn. Wolsey tried repeatedly to secure a legal annulment from Pope Clement VII, but Clement was beholden to the Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and nephew of Catherine. Henry summoned the Reformation Parliament in 1529, which passed 137 statutes in seven years and exercised an influence in political and ecclesiastic affairs which was unknown to feudal parliaments. Religious reform movements had already taken hold in England, but on a small scale: the Lollards had been in existence since the mid-fourteenth century and the ideas of Luther and Zwingli circulated within intellectual groups, but continental Protestantism had yet to find favor with the English people. The break from Rome was accomplished through law, not social outcry; Henry, as Supreme Head of the Church of England, acknowledged this by slight alterations in worship ritual instead of a wholesale reworking of religious dogma.”
http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon41.html
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 12:59 PMBetty.
Thanks for the history lesson, but I think you missed my point.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:04 PMTAFKABO,
I think you missed my point! What I was trying to say is “People in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones!”
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:08 PMcircles
The Independent Orange Order was founded at the turn of the last century (1905 I think) as a result of a dispute in South Belfast Unionist Association. It’s first Grand Master, Thomas Sloan was an Independent MP for South Belfast, after he defeated the Orange County endorsed, James Dunbar-Buller. Paisley isn’t a member of the successionist IOO, although he often speaks at their demonstrations.
Paisley may be able to do a lot of things, but the last time I checked, there was no tardis seen hovering over the Martyrs Memorial Church, so I think its safe to say he didn’t travel back in time in order to split the Orange Institution, just so he could enjoy the privilege of speaking at IOO demonstrations!
As to the founding of the Free Presbyterian Church, I recommend you read Dennis Cooke’s book “Persecuting Zeal” - it covers the topic reasonably impartially I think.
pith
Why isn’t it Presbyterian? Need I remind you that Calvin was the Moderator in Geneva for nearly 50 years. Annual election of a moderator is not a Presbyterian fundamental. I think in one sense you are right though, the FPC is probably an amalgam of elements of Baptist and Presbyterian.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:11 PMOK, I still don’t get it, but I’m sorry if I misunderstood you.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:11 PMTafkabo,
it was probably more for my own peace of mind. But following the last posts it is rather difficult to find a/the point.Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:22 PMLoyalist,
Brilliant. My favourite travel game. Find the question to the answer. Is it “How long was Calvin Moderator of the Presyberian Church in Ireland in Geneva for?” If I’m right, can I have a go?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:28 PMthe free presbyterian is presbyterian in structure- elders, etc., but quasi-baptist in theology-accepting some of the criticisms of infant baptism that Baptists have.
The independent orange order was a radical, anti-UUP group that believed there should be no political linkage to the order, and later dabbled in Home Rule.
Oh, and since the Taliban tend to execute those who deviate from their standards, shouldn’t Marty think twice before introducing them into NI politics?
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:28 PM
