Tuesday, September 26, 2006
Bertie to make full disclosure?
Shift focus to the south from the west east, a fair amount of newsprint has been spent all week on the donations to Bertie story. After initially refusing to comment, he is now planning to release the detail this evening on the RTE Six O’Clock News. This has the feel of another sucker punch coming.
Mick Fealty @ 04:09 PM
Sucker punch or Rabbitte punch?
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 04:56 PMtwo payments of 22,500 in 1993 and 16,500 in 1994.
The first was from eight associates and the second one from four.
Don’t know if it’s enough for Bertie to be sunk and I’d say it’s too far from the election to do any damage if he survives.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 05:06 PMIs there anyone in Irish politics that isnt corrupt in some way. Regardless how Berties dresses this up this is dirty back handers in brown paper bags.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 05:27 PMFrom the RTÉ report
The Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, has given details of payments totalling £39,000 which were made to him in the early 1990s when he was Minister for Finance.
In his first detailed interview since the payments controversy began six days ago, Mr Ahern told RTÉ News that a group of friends made two separate payments to him in December 1993 and in 1994.
The Taoiseach said he regarded the money as a loan to cover the costs of his legal separation, but he conceded that no repayments have yet been made and no interest has been paid.
A loan, from 1993/4, with no repayments and no interest?… sure it was, Bertie..
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 05:36 PMHere we go again! Most of us probably thought the brown envelopes had been pulped…
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 05:46 PMI have to say that backhanders & a bit of graft does seem to be a feature of Irish politics for some reason. I can forever remember Dustin the Turkey talking about getting in politics and taking backhanders and that boy had his finger on the pulse…
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 05:57 PMclaw..beak..wing on the pulse..
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:16 PMWs this the Bertie Bowl we used to hear about?
Didn’t know it was Begging Bowl…Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:22 PMI support the govt but Bertie must go. But I will defend him to this extent: he states that he tried to repay the loans but the benefactors refused to agree. If he stays on this will be dragged up perennially and will cost FF the election. Bertie needs to do the honorably thing and let someone without a history take over. Preferably no-one from the Haughey govts. I recommend Brian Lenihan or Mary Hanafin, but not Brian Cowen. Bertie needs to put the party before himself.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:24 PMBrian
“But I will defend him to this extent: he states that he tried to repay the loans but the benefactors refused to agree.”
And in what year did he claim he offered to return the money?
More likely Bertie, at some point, would have realised that the money would be politically disastrous if/when revealed.
And, in those circumstances, either he offered to repay it expecting that offer to be refused, hoping that would cover him. Or he never actually offered, and never expected it to be revealed.. at least until he was out of office.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:37 PMPete Baker he said he had used up all his savings at that stage. He had to pay maintenance to his daughters of £20,000, and that excludes his wife. You know a separation can be financially a very costly affair. However I accept that perception is crucial here and that he must do the honorable thing and go.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:43 PMIvor Callely’s head rolled over £1500 (to his recollection). Bertie’s in multiples of that. All it’s going to take is the appearance of preferential treatment to one of his “debt of honour(?)” buddies (clientelism being the modus operandi of Irish society, it’ll be there) and Bertie’s gone.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:49 PMThat wasn’t the question I asked Brian.. perhaps he didn’t specify it, but I was asking if he had indicated which year he claimed he had attempted to repay the interest-free loans he received when he was Minister for Finance?
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:50 PMOne of his “friends”, Burke, was made chairman of the Dublin Port board after the “loans”.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:55 PM“That wasn’t the question I asked Brian.. perhaps he didn’t specify it, but I was asking if he had indicated which year he claimed he had attempted to repay the interest-free loans he received when he was Minister for Finance?”
Got the impression he tried to do it in 1994 but am not sure if he said that or not.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:57 PMSucker punch or Rabbitte punch?
George,
If memory serves me right, Rabbitte has a bit of a history in this type of thing as well....
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 06:58 PMEven if loans were made “interest-free” surely the question would still arise of the need to declare an income tax liability on a benefit-in-kind received based on the value of notional interest on the loans. Or are such benefits not taxable in the Republic of Ireland?
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 07:34 PM39,000 ?
Is that all ? Hardly enough to put a deposit on a house for jayzuz sake . Everybody knows that Bertie never earned a whole lot other than his political wages . I’d say he’ll get the sympathy vote . He’s behaved like a gent towards his ex and children . No CJ millions then .
Still it’s not the amount but the principle as the whore said to the bishop . Michael Martin and Brian Cowen may yet see an opportunity . Interesting days . If he survives this they’ll have to rename him Houdini .
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 07:53 PMLenihan? The son goes one step further than his father. Nice little bit of dynasty about that.
But will Bertie really go, would there really be enough pressure on him iun the party and FF electorate?
Are there stories of anyone manouevering into position to stick the knife in anmd take over?
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 09:40 PMMy guess is that it’s not enough for him to go. Bertie will survive.
I did a very unrepresentative straw poll and the story of the children and breakup seemed to have struck a chord and might swing it for him.
As for Lenihan, give me a break. Might be too soon for Hanafin, who is incredibly capable, and Cowen has a touch of the Gordon Brown’s about him.
Also, don’t forget Bertie is still FF’s biggest electoral asset so there will be no heaves just yet.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 09:45 PMWhy would anyone give a politician an interest free loan? Why would anyone give a politician donations totalling £39,000? Why would a millionaire pay New Labour party?
In my world these things don’t happen without reason. We need to consider more carefully donations to political parties.
Now I don’t recall Charley spending long inside and indeed can even recall a state funeral. To me the whole event illustrated a National ability to set variable standards of conduct for different people at different times. Attitudes that owe less ethical standards and more to hypocritical convenience and humbug
An acquaintance of mine, who frequented one of the tribunals, once said it was much better to invest in the South as it was easy to know who to pay!!!! In part I think there is a ‘stroke’ culture that goes back to previous centuries where it was OK to pull a fast one for it was against the English but now it is against the Irish and that dubious justification no longer exists.
Ireland needs to address these issues properly because it really isn’t savoury.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 09:47 PMGeorge I’d be inclined to agree with you, purely on instinct about the circumstannces of the case.
I’m no expert on how it operates down there.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 09:56 PMGreenflag, £39,000 (pounds) would have bought a house outright in the early nineties. Crataegus’ post is “on the money” so to speak. What’s bigger than the damage this might do to Bertie, Fianna Fail or the current government, is the damage it’s going to do to Irish democracy. The perception that all politicians are on the take locks the doors and pulls the curtains of much of the electorate. Bertie might survive this, but if the Taoiseach is on the take in the minds of the voters, he can chuck his one brush and just back the tar lorry into Leinster House.
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 10:04 PMmaybe I am just niave, but it sounds like friends helping him out, can’t see it doing him much damage
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 10:07 PMMy guess is that it’s not enough for him to go. Bertie will survive.
I did a very unrepresentative straw poll and the story of the children and breakup seemed to have struck a chord and might swing it for him.
You could be right. I don’t like that story at all, but I never seem to be with the ‘mood’ of the electorate.
£39,000 was enough to buy a house in Celbridge, Co. Kildare at that time. Now the same house goes for closer to €390,000 (£300K).
Posted by on Sep 26, 2006 @ 10:07 PM
