Tuesday, January 17, 2006
All paramilitaries involved in crime…
Although Minister Shaun Woodward has stated in public that the IRA was on track for a clean bill of health regarding its criminal activity, Assistant Cheif Constable Sam Kincaid told the policing board today that none of the major paramilitaries in Northern Ireland had “ceased involvement in organised crime”.
Mick Fealty @ 07:59 PM
Which, since he has reportedly stood by his previous comments, begs the question… On what basis, or whose information - if any - is Shaun Woodward making his statements?
The next IMC report is going to be interesting reading, Mick.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 08:12 PMProbably worth noting your previous thread on Woodward’s comments.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 08:17 PMthe evilness and cunning of these securocrats knows no bounds! the dogs in ballymurphy can tell you what the psni (aka ruc) can only lie about: there is no cigarette smuggling, no counterfeiting, no peddling in red (or is it white, i can never remember) diesel going on anywhere and ‘slab’ and his mates are now as clean as the driven snow. i know ‘cos i was there when ‘slab’ was never smuggling anything, even pigs - not content with bringing down the democratically elected parliament at stormont, which we had spent 30 years trying to establish through bomb, bullet and hunger strikes, through their fiendish lies about spies and blackmailing of denis, now they want to make sure stormont never comes back - let me tell you comrades, these securocrats are everywhere and they are tireless!!
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 08:19 PMDespite your sarcasism Alfred, you need to realise that Sam Kincaid was also in charge of Operation Torsion and out of all the senior PSNI, apart ex members Bill Lowry and Alan McQuillan is the viciferously opposed to Sinn Feins involvement in Government, never mind in charge of policing. Woodward needs to analyse any claims from Kincaid very carefully, no more opinions at this critical juncture in the peace process. It is extremely suspicious to nationalists that this enemy of progress has popped up in an effort to torpedo the IMC report and give rejectionists the ammo they have been looking for.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 09:13 PMSam Kincaid is leaving the PSNI in four weeks time. So it is unlikely that he will be asked to stand over these comments seeing that they were allegedly made at a private briefing.
Like Lowry before him he attempts to create chaos and set the agenda and then walkls away to retirement via some DUP meeting.
The only good thing that can be said is that the politicos who were at the forefront of the Special Branch and RUC during the height of their collusion murder camapign are slowly but surely exitng stage left.
They may attempt to fight their old agenda to the end, but the end it is. I believe it is called operational independence in some quarters.Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:03 PMLoyalist paramilitaries are continuing to shoot and beat people on the streets, another 2 attacks last night.
No unionist condemnation and not a whisper of the attacks in this ‘unionist talk shop’.
Funny that !!
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:04 PMSurely these unfounded attacks on Sam Kincaids character constitute playing the man?
Mods, please.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:35 PMTAFKABO
I’d say they fall under Conor Brady’s definition of what constitutes discussion on the interweb.
Kincaid, interestingly, is the only one who, and it has to pointed out, reportedly, didn’t single out any single organisation.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:45 PMTaf
Republicans dont need proof the man is good enough
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:45 PMMartin and Pat,
Can we leave the ad hominem stuff outside the door. It’s not offensive, just tiresome and trivial.
Breaking news has the DUP and Sinn Fein responses. The former backs Kincaid, and the latter slates him:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/story.asp?j=169557902&p=y695586x8&n=169558662
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:58 PMis that ‘pat mclarnon’ aka as the sinn fein blog monitoring committee?
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 11:13 PMAnyone who cannot see the pattern here, is being totally disingenuous. Bill Lowry was at the forefront of undermining progress in the peace process and then retired from the PSNI and turned up at the DUPs sack cloth and ashes meeting. Alan McQuillen has left the PSNI yet launched a high profile series of raids in Manchester that have sinced led no where. Sam Kincaid, weeks before retirement,throughs a lifeline to the DUP, knowing he is untouchable as he is going anyway. These are the some of the now visable enemies of the peace process.
Posted by on Jan 17, 2006 @ 11:24 PMI completely agree with Pat and JD here - but the question remains, how many other Sam Kincaid’s and Bill Lowry’s still exist within the PSNI? And when will ministers or chief constables eventually do something about PSNI officers using their position to implement their agenda? lets face it Shaun Woodward now looks stupid will he do anything though? No.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 01:17 AMdoes this cessation of criminal activity, also include affiliated gangs & other hoods who tithe a section of their profits to the big boys as “protection” payments ?
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 02:09 AMPat Mc Larnon
How long do you reckon before all the old-guard ‘political policemen’ are out? By mid-2007, perhaps?
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 03:26 AMA statement from Huge Orde is required on this. If the IMC back the Minister’s view then the Unionists will have the excuse of Kinkaid’s intervention.
If the PNSI who brought down the institutions with their Stormontgate fiasco are now interfering with the restoration then we are in a very serious position.
Let’s have their definitive position from Orde and not somebody half out the door already.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 08:22 AMSlugger Admin,
If a senior PSNI/RUC officer is the centre of the story (in this case Kincaid) then how the hell can you avoid making comments about him in the context of the overall thread.
To many his behaviour is clearly a very cynical exercise to usurp the content of the forthcoming IMC report. It was done in a very underhand way and as usual a lot of people aren’t very vexed about how this ‘leaked out’.
The comments do have serious implications for the political process (as intended) and will no doubt be quoted ad nauseum in the days ahead. In that context one is quite entitled to question the integrity and background of the person making the claims. It is also quite correct to point out that this is not the first time this type of selective leaking has occurred just before the person making the claims goes into retirement.
Finally, while recognising that Slugger Admin don’t like (some) ad hominen comments it is clear that a consistent policy is not being followed.
People have been allowed to come on the site and trash the reputation of others (exclusively republicans) and Slugger Admin doesn’t seem to get too excited.
Gonzo,
I have long argued that the middle and senior management of the PSNI who were put in place, at the time of the Flanagan era, should be rid out before recognition for the PSNI has be earned. Unfortunately SF and especially the SDLP don’t think this is necessary. However, with the likes if Lowry and Kincaid decommissioning themselves, progress of a sort is being made.
As for mid 2007, keep guessing along with all the others, eventually one of the dates will be correct and you eventually be able to claim credit for being right all alongPosted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 08:47 AM“Surely these unfounded attacks on Sam Kincaids character constitute playing the man?
Mods, please.” - TAFKABO
Surely you’re not suggesting that Pat would make an unfounded attack on another man’s character, as would clearly be a case of you making an unfounded attack on another man’s character, wouldn’t it?
Sam Kincaid is one of the RUC ‘old guard’ mentality who headed the Special branch during a period when it was very active as one of the British state’s killing machines in the north. That is a true statement.
http://relativesforjustice.com/conference.htm
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 08:59 AMThe old guard of the RUC are doing everything in their power to halt progress, ably assisted by Mark Durkan if this mornings interview is anything to go by. Here you have Sam Kincaid the man who ran Operation Torsion to bring down the institutions, the man who ordered the arrested Francie Brolly in an effort to do political damage, four weeks before his retirement giving a ‘private’ briefing to the Policing Board which on the surface scuppers attempts to make progress much more difficult. Someone maybe might ask the question how come BBC and UTV, in time for the main evening news bulletins were aware of the contents of this private briefing, could it be that Ian Paisley Jr. knew it was coming.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 09:31 AMGetting back to the nub of the issue - do Pat, JD and co genuinely believe that republicans have ceased all criminal activity such as diesel and other cross-border smuggling?
I realise you’d have to accept that it was happening in the first place and that might be a bit of a problem.
The thing is, Kinkaid may be everything republicans accuse him of being and republicans could still be involved in crime.
Aside from just thrashing Kinkaid - will any of the republicans give us a run down on what they think the current situation is regarding smuggling and other crime that the republican movement has been accused of?
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:05 AMThe IRA has effectively stood down, what ever smuggling or criminality that may or may not be going on is not being done by the IRA. Arrests and charges might demonstrate this to be the case, so none have happened. Why this black propaganda can prove so effective is that it is extremely hard to prove a negative, just through the accusation out there, like a hand grenade, and there will always be enough willing ears to take it as fact.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:23 AMRingo, the issue is whether the IRA is involved in crime or whether some of its members are. Undoubtedly, some are - just as some PSNI officers are. I doubt brown envelopes to fix this and that have disappeared from police culture. However, if the IRA’s Army Council has issued a cease and desist order to its members, then that is all it can be expected to do. It cannot be accountable for so-called freelancers.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:26 AMRingo,
to even attempt to answer your question would bring us down the road that the statement and subsequent leak was meant to bring us down. Forgive me if I don’t oblige Kincaid
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:31 AM“Getting back to the nub of the issue - do Pat, JD and co genuinely believe that republicans have ceased all criminal activity such as diesel and other cross-border smuggling?”
In addition Ringo,
You will get cross border smuggling as long as there is a border. It has been a feature of border life since its creation and will continue amongst those who have a mind to do it until they can no longer make a buck from it. If republicans were so in love in smuggling why is their objective the removal of the border.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:35 AMRingo
Why would the IRA stand down and disarm only for the political objectives of the republican movement to be cast aside for a few litres of deisel or cheap copies of King Kong? Ask yourself if it makes sense. If Mr Kincaid knows who is involved in crime then he should arrest and charge them. If anyone thinks the Army Council of the IRA is organising such crimes then they are either stupid or living in cloud cuckoo land.
Posted by on Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:43 AM
