who cares

Bill,

You obviously cared enough to read it and post.

GSTQ was roundly booed by the Welsh supporters when we visited Cardiff last year.

I expect that the magnificant anthem of Wales will be booed in return by some of the home support tomorrow...in what those perpetrating it will classify as "retaliation".

It is appalling that ANY visting National Anthem is booed, but unfortunately it is inevitable tomorrow.

Regarding replacing the neandethal chants of "No Surrender" by some during GSTQ, it is not an answer to drown it out with chants of "Northern Ireland".

This also bastardises the anthem, which should be fully respected.

If a couple of hundred souls are so "loyal" to Her Majesty that they choose to bastardise GSTQ, I think they need to think again about their definition of respect, and ponder over the irony of their actions.

PS: Big John Hartson is sure to get pelters tomorrow...with his elbows everywhere, pushing and shoving, aggressive, "no nonsense" style of play etc.

Que the detractors (many of them Celtic fans) with cries of "rampant sectarianism" etc.

They should maybe do a little homework before they jump the gun in their insatiable desire to lambast everything "Norn Iron".

Belfast Gonzo,

With respect, Our Wee Country itself promotes bigotry. Get a load of this article on the front page of their site:

World Cup 2002.

I don't know if Slugger wants to associate itself with such a hate-filled anti-Irish site.

Satire. Very good. You seem a bit obsessed with this article.

Ah UI, you still haven't found anything better to do than whinge about Owen's article? Does this have any relevance to the question about the national anthems? Nah, but don't let that stop you having your traditional whinge.

UI doesn't do satire.

"such a hate-filled anti-Irish site."

One article, one writer, 2000 members...many Irish.

Nor, apparantly, does he do irony.

Yeah I love this bit of 'satire' (ahem):

"Roy Keane’s departure from the Republic’s camp was ascribed partly to a disagreement with his manager and partly to "personal problems". In all fairness being a psychotic gipsy can be a serious problem for a person. Roy was also probably concerned about his family. I’m told it’s been a tough few years for itinerant driveway tarmaccers"

Or how about this great bit of satire:

"Of course the most shocking thing about the Keane affair was the reaction of those fun-loving scamps, the beggar supporters. The vast majority...Not entirely surprising that they supported an abusive and violent scumbag when you consider we’re talking about a country where dishonesty and casual criminality are often viewed as endearing national quirks."

Wow the author of this article could have given the late great Ronnie Barker a run for his money! (now that's satire)

Hopefully the Welsh show Norn Ireland some respect and beat them by a tiny 3 or 4 nil, with Hartson scoring 3 and Healy an OG to round off a jolly good day :-)

Victor 1
Bitter, bitter , bitter, bet you're also a Man City supporter :)

I can't believe I was born just down the road from you..;)

Victor 1
Bitter, bitter, bitter, bet you're also a Man City supporter :)

I can't believe I was born just down the road from you..;)

Paul
So I'm bitter because I don't support Norn Ireland, surely I'm entitled to give my support to whomsoever I wish it's free choice is it not! I'm don't support Glentoran either suppose that makes me bitter also ;-)

I'm undecided who gets my support tomorrow, good luck to both teams I suppose. My attention will be on another match anyway.

One Welsh fan on the board suggested the booing at the Millennium stadium was motivated by anti-English sentiment, but will our fans see it that way?

There's at least one Welsh blogger who takes the opposite view:

what Rhodri and his British Nationalist friends do not understand is that the Welsh were NOT booing England's National Anthem, they booed the 'British' national anthem, as they did against Northern Ireland in an earlier match at the millenium stadium.

I'm more interested in events in Nicosia tomorrow evening

Over ten thousand Irish fans are travelling over for the game.

Home from home.

Let's face it, Britain could change the national anthem to Come On Eileen and it would still be excepted unreservedly by NI football fans. National anthems should be scrapped, period.

Come On Eileen ?

Wonder if big Ian takes that as an intruction?

Unfortunately, the Irish have always shown their comtempt for the people of Wales. Think of the song "The Sea Around Us" for example. Perhaps that criticism was well founded. The Welsh seemingly have always bowed down to their English masters. Wouldn't you agree?

As to Welsh literature and poetry; forget it. Dylan Thomas wrote two or three decent pieces of poetry and prose and then drank himself to death in an Irish American bar in New York city called "The White Horse" while in the company of the Clancy Brothers. I kid you not.

Why do NI use GSTQ?

I thought even the Sassenachs were trying to replace it with "Jerusalem"?

Like, it's a bit of a dirge. Why not have something that demonstrates a bit of local id? National anthems are generally shite anyway. Exceptions: La Marseillaise and maybe Advance Australia Fair?

Couldn't we lead the way with a rethink? Dawson Baillie doing a rendition of Coney Island?

Anyway - stand up for the Ulstermen. I really hope they do the business (without burning the frickin' town down afterwards).

Will the Welsh show respect for the English national anthem being sang by Irish descendents of Scottish settlers?

Good question.

"Why not have something that demonstrates a bit of local id?"

That's a problem because there are 2 ids.

I know. Let's make the "Go Walking" jingle from a few years ago the new NI National Anthem. The message is uncontentious. We all know the words. And its so insanely catchy it's like the mind virus equivalent of the Ebola Zaire bug.

I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry..
This is so typical of the NI mindset. "we want respect"
It is a bloody football game..The opposing team/supporters will rarely show respect. It doesn't matter if you play for Brazil, Germany, France or England.
It is the way it is! Your opponents supporters will boo you.
Believe it or believe it not, the NI football team isn't precious, they are a football team like any other team. Prepared to be boo'd
Peoples attitude's in this country leave me stunned sometimes because of their pettiness

I'm putting a few bob on an Irish double. That will take care of the question of who to cheer for.

The Scottish sing Flower of Scotland to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.

The Welsh sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.

Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?

´´The Scottish sing Flower of Scotland to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity. The Welsh sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.
Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?´´

Dwi´n meddwl ac´hos bod y Cymry mwy deallus na pobl Gogledd Iwerddon, dyma pam.
Dwi´n gobeithio bod Cymru yn mynd i innill y gem.

"Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?"

Walter,

Because it is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, I presume.

Recommendations have been made to the IFA to change to a uniquely, Northern Irish sporting anthem...something I support wholeheartedly.

Right...never mind the anthems, I'm off to the game - here's hoping for "three in a row".

Good luck to our celtic brothers Wales, from all your friends in West Belfast.

No your "wee" country did'nt.

Great to see norn iron fans with all their red hands of ulster showing their true colours booing the welsh national anthem!!!
And didn`t they love singing their "national anthem".
Is it any wonder windsor park is a cold house for Catholics.

I don't think the Welsh fans kew what hit em. They music remember they're in the World capital of whataboutary.

0-2 to Wales. That looks to take care of your double Henry. The booing of Hartson and the Welsh anthem is not doing the team the fans or the IFA any favours.

Capaldi yellowed! Penalty.

Penalty. Saved!

The treatment of Hartson by the north's fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north's fans are still as sectarian as ever.

I'm enjoying watching them getting beaten but nowhere near as much as Hartson.

Slap it up the bigots John.

IFA certainly has questions to answer. Which lies in particular were you thinking of?

2 NI goals in 5 minutes!

Its 2-2.

Henry, I take it back!

Mick,

This kind.

[I]“The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All”.
“By 2007 Football will be the most popular and inclusive sport in Northern Ireland, in which all are encouraged to participate and realize their full potential, led by a dynamic and outward looking governing body with successful International teams”. [/I]

None of this has happened. It was and is a sectarian environment. The fans prove it again today. The IFA's response as always will not deal with their sectarian supporters.

What a game!!!

"The treatment of Hartson by the north's fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north's fans are still as sectarian as ever."

I think you'll find that the so called Irish fans in Landsdowne Road have given a similar reception to Rangers players for many years. I fully accept that my comment is whataboutery, but condemnation must go to anyone to does this kind of thing.

2-3 Giggs! Curses!

Hartson is a violent thug, masquerading as a professional football player. He's given a hard time because of his style everywhere he plays(the English fans gave him a particularly bad reception).

Maybe winsdor park should be renamed the theatre of sectarian hate!

And isn`t it funny that the NI bbc commentators never see or hear anything?

Today we witnessed the true colours of NI 'fans'. Booing an anthem? They're a disgrace. And the treatment Hartson suffered for being a Celtic player highlights the stinking hypocrisy of NI supporters who berated some Irish fans for booing Rangers players.

Today, it wasn't just some NI fans booing, it was practically the whole fanbase!

Inclusive? My arse they are.

Before anyone starts to assess thsi game based onm politics and not the game (because somepeople are pathetically small minded on this island) i watched it and NI actually must be going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

Before anyone starts to assess this game based on politics and not the game itself(because some people are pathetically small minded on this island) I watched it and NI actually are going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

Before anyone starts to assess this game based on politics and not the game itself(because some people are pathetically small minded on this island) I watched it and NI actually are going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

Disapointed about the result and do not approve of booing the Welsh anthem even if the Welsh booed QSTQ. Boo those fans not the anthem.

How can the atmosphere be inclusive when a large proportion of the crowd sing 'rule britannia'

Around 20 minutes into the first half the stadium erupted with a rousing rendition.

Is 'rule britannia' part of the new and improved atmosphere ?

Good point, davey.

Some cracking football in the second half. Without a doubt they've turned a big 20 year corner. Nice free kick from Giggs.

Crat, surely that's an aspirational statement? Hard to peg it for a lie.

A really enjoyable and exciting game-5 goals!-despite the result.

I see while some of us have been at the match the blinkered have come out to play.

Green Giant

"booing the welsh national anthem!!!...a cold house for Catholics"

How is booing the welsh anthem sectarian?
What has the Welsh anthem got to do with Catholics in NI or Nationalists in NI?

Someone Welsh being offended I can understand but some from NI claiming it shows sectarianism is a desparate scrapping of the barrel to justify an increasingly untenable position.

I didn't boo the anthem, respect should have been shown but then so should the Welsh fans at the Cardiff game.

"their red hands of ulster showing their true colours"

The Red Hand of Ulster is the oldest symbol on the island of ireland. How is displaying it make a cold house? Tyrone GAA matches mustn't have a Catholic about the place, all those red hands they must be a big bunch of anti-Catholic bigots.

"The treatment of Hartson by the north's fans"

Rooney got booed at the last game. Beckham got booed at the last game.

Today when all the Welsh names were called out they were booed. They were booed as they came on the pitch. Earnshaw got booed and chanted at as a cheat. Giggs got booed and chanted at when he took corners. The goalkeeper was jeered (called a fat bastard) everytime he took a goal kick (like every other keeper who comes to Windsor park). Hartson got booed and chants of fat bastard and who ate all the pies. The Dutch referee and the linesman in front of the North Stand got booed.

This was a grudge match after the robbery of the game at the Millenium stadium and the behaviour of the Welsh fans before and at the game (the unsuccessful violent attack by the Cardiff Soul Crew on two pubs before the match and the booing of the anthem at the match). The bad blood had feck all to do with sectarianism.

You cheer your own team and you jeer your opponents and the officials (when they make questionable decisions and it wouldn't be football if all the decisions against your team weren't thought questionable or wrong) - its called going to a football match.

No sectarian chants or name-calling were made at ANY player.

"Good luck to our celtic brothers Wales, from all your friends in West Belfast."

Hmmmmm and that doesn't show a warped mindset .

"Today when all the Welsh names were called out they were booed. They were booed as they came on the pitch. Earnshaw got booed and chanted at as a cheat. Giggs got booed and chanted at when he took corners. The goalkeeper was jeered (called a fat bastard) everytime he took a goal kick (like every other keeper who comes to Windsor park). Hartson got booed and chants of fat bastard and who ate all the pies. The Dutch referee and the linesman in front of the North Stand got booed.
"

That's a lot of booing and foul language. You guys should chill out and concentrate on cheering your own side instead.

Maybe catch a GAA game to see how to behave yourselves at a spoting event.

Ot rather a sporting event.

On second thoughts don't. You'll pick up bad habits like giving your own players serious abuse if they do the slightest thing wrong.

United Irelander

When I try to put a face to the prick that makes the slap deserving posts that you do Barry McElduff springs to mind. Is it you ?

I bet at school you were a tell tale - hopping on one leg shouting teacher teacher those bad boys are annoying me.

You really are a prick in the truest sense of that insult - do your friends ever tell you so.

You are also a liability in the argument for a United Ireland - Infact I am sure you would put some nationalists off.

I am sorry but I never play man not ball but you really bring the worst out in a person.

I was at the match.
The Welsh National Anthem was booed by a minority in the West Stand who are of course a minority in the ground.
Some of them just couldn't help themselves and it was all about retaliation for the widespread booing of GSTQ in Cardiff.

Two wrongs don't make a right but some of the NI fans aren't as forgiving as the rest of us.
I have been to dozens of matches at Windsor and not once I have heard anything but silence and then applause at the visiting teams anthem.

ie this action had history and context and should be seen as a one off.

Regarding Hartson - grow up - it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team. Rooney got the same treatment against England and Giggs got some today. They are professional footballers and are supposed to be able to take it.

Stop being such a cry baby.

Rule Britannia certainly ruled today at Windsor Park.

Jakie Fullerton said "there are plenty of Rangers fans in the ground today"

Rule Britannia certainly ruled today at Windsor Park.

Jakie Fullerton said "there are plenty of Rangers fans in the ground today"

Hard luck to the North, they did well to get back into it, shows good spirit ... but i'm a Giggs fan so happy to see him putting in a great game and getting on the score sheet.

What's with all the booing? I don't get that, what's the point? Not very sporting is it? (though I don't see how it's sectarian, that's nonsense)

I can understand Hartson being booed though, the man's a thug IMHO

England fans are booing one of the Austrian players - SECTARIANISM!!!!! ;)

Rule Britannia ?

I will give £20 to your chosen charity if you can tell me the time this was song and I will confirm it on video.

I was there and I missed it ?

They sang the "bomber harris song" _(made popular at former meetings with Germany) etc and stand up for the Ulstermen but I did not hear Rule Britannia. None of these are sectarian or anti Irish

Therefore those who say it was sang please advise when

Uncalled for attack at 5:21 JEB, it's not on man.

"What's with all the booing? I don't get that, what's the point? Not very sporting is it? (though I don't see how it's sectarian, that's nonsense)"

Maca,

Not very sporting( although,apparently it's quite common at football games;)) but the fact that it's N.Ireland fans is enough to get the bigots on their high horses again. We should allow them a bit of leeway, I suppose, the aftermath of the England game last month must have been agony for them.

UI/davey/brian et al

Did you actually watch the game?
If so why?
You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?
I've got visions of you all sitting in front of your telly with your notebooks and tape recorders, listening for every cheep coming from the crowd, just dying to report to the world the latest crime committed at the Cauldron of Sectarianism.

Get yourselves a life.
Watch your own team.
Be a bit more critical sometimes of their behaviour, before you judge that of others.

John east belfast, you must have some hearing and sight. You heard more than all of us who witnessed this sectarian farce on the TV!Maybe the bad biased BBC doctored the sound, added chorus`s, falsified the images!!!!

Get real The Theatre of Sectarianism, sorry winsdor park truely showed norn fans for all the world to see, petty minded bigots.

Green Giant,
John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

I'll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

"Did you actually watch the game?
If so why?
You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?"

Green Giant,
John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

I'll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

"Did you actually watch the game?
If so why?
You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?"

Green Giant,
John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

I'll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

"Did you actually watch the game?
If so why?
You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?"

"The Theatre of Sectarianism"- I believe the accepted title now amongst the begrudgers and bigots is "Cauldron of Sectarianism". Try and keep up.

John East Belfast

"When I try to put a face to the prick that makes the slap deserving posts that you do Barry McElduff springs to mind. Is it you ?"

LOL. Here come the ad hominem attacks! You NI supporters need lessons in respect!

"I bet at school you were a tell tale - hopping on one leg shouting teacher teacher those bad boys are annoying me."

I was pretty quiet in school. No nasty chants from me or anything...

"You really are a prick in the truest sense of that insult - do your friends ever tell you so."

Charming language, John. You're a credit to your fanbase. It's language like this which drags Slugger down. Shame on you.

"You are also a liability in the argument for a United Ireland - Infact I am sure you would put some nationalists off."

Really? Why's that?

"I am sorry but I never play man not ball but you really bring the worst out in a person."

Yeah the truth can be hurtful sometimes, eh?

"this action had history and context and should be seen as a one off."

LOL!

"Regarding Hartson - grow up - it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team."

It's the job of the fans to harass a representative of a team associated with Irishness and Catholicism?

"Stop being such a cry baby."

LOL. Here's some advice John. Firstly, cut out the ad hominem attacks. Secondly, acknowledge when your supporters have let themselves down by behaving like a bunch of animals, and thirdly, stop making excuses for bigotry.

You must do better!

GG,

As I've said endlessly in the past,; civility is the only admission fee for posting on Slugger.

You and I may have seen the broadcast pictures and heard the sound. John was there. Please have the courtesy to let him tell it as he saw it without turning the whole affair into a shouting match.

Mick

Paul

"UI/davey/brian et al

"Did you actually watch the game?"

Yes.

"If so why?"

I'm a football fan. I'll watch any football match.

"You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?"

You're obviously a poor judge of character.

"I've got visions of you all sitting in front of your telly with your notebooks and tape recorders, listening for every cheep coming from the crowd, just dying to report to the world the latest crime committed at the Cauldron of Sectarianism."

Picture me shaking my head in disgust as the Welsh anthem was booed and John Hartson was harassed and you'll be getting closer...

"Get yourselves a life."

I have one thanks.

"Watch your own team."

LOL! I do, but can I not watch other teams as well?

"Be a bit more critical sometimes of their behaviour, before you judge that of others."

If one day my team's suporters boo the Welsh anthem, (hopefully it never happens) you'll hear me condemn it.

Time to open your eyes and ears to the disgraceful bigots within your fanbase Paul. If you don't, the problem won't go away.

Your supporters let all decent football fans down today with their hate-filled jeers. Shame on them all.

No wonder I prefer knitting

If you want to hear the singing of the rousing rendition of 'rule britannia' fast forward your video to the 21st minute(ish), the boys were in great voice.

"Sport for all- your avin' a laugh"...

joe,

Some of these NI fans just don't want to know. They turn a blind eye to the bigotry on show and if you speak out about it you're branded a 'detractor' or a 'begrudger'.

They have alot to learn about being tolerant.

I watched the match on BBC Wales today, one of the commentators stated that he had never heard such disrespect given to a national anthem in all his years of commentating, he did mention that a section of the crowd had booed god save the queen at the Millenium stadium during the first game, but had never known, basically, a full stadium shout and boo during the playing of any anthem. He also mentioned that the crowd then started singing to drown out the remainder of the anthem.

He said football doesn't need this kind of 'so called supporter'

Do Northern Ireland fans think they are British?
If they do, why the disgraceful scenes during the Welsh national anthem - don't they realise the match was being watched across Britain.
Another own goal before a ball had been kicked - when will these racist bigots ever learn?
They have lost the support of Wales to bring back the British championship - just right too!

As Jackie Fullerton said, there are plenty of Rangers fans in the ground today.

Is this the sort of function that n.i/Rangers fans attend.

http://calbears.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20050529/ai_n14646024

crim,
Relevance of your article to the Northern Ireland international team?

UI,
As you well know, I've had no problem in criticising "my side", be it political or football when I've felt it warranted it.

However, in the vast majority of cases the vitriol which is thrown towards the team and its supporters is not generated by a hatred of sectarianism but by a hatred of everything to do with Northern Ireland as a separate entity.

Welsh anthem was booed-shouldn't have happened, but it wasn't generated by sectarianism. John Hartson got a hard time, as I said before, he's a thug and gets stick everywhere he played. He probably would have got a better reception in Cyprus judging by the vast number of Celtic shirts on show. Remind me again, why do the "greatest supporters in the world" feel the need to wear that particular Scottish club's rather than their own team's shirts?

Unlike certain other sporting bodies in Ireland, at least the IFA has realised there is a problem and has made attempts to alleviate the situation. Also have a look on the OWC board tonight and you'll see that decent fans are castigating the morons within our fan base. In time, hopefully sooner rather than later, both the IFA and the fans will completely remove any traces of sectarianism which still remain. But if and when that day comes,I still don't think it'll be enough for the likes of yourself, Green Giant, Crim and Wiliam.

Now if you excuse me, I'm off to Vienna for Wed night's game and I have to get my sash dusted and
bowler polished ;) Don't worry,I'll send you a postcard right from the middle of the hatefest!

Paul - have a great time!

Thanks Slug, I will! It's kind of an anniversary pressie for the missus, I'll get round to telling her about the match shortly :)

UI,

You might be interested how disgruntled some of the uber-Prods over at Love Ulster are with the IFA's fight against sectarianism.
Try this:
http://www.loveulster.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=885

Paul

"However, in the vast majority of cases the vitriol which is thrown towards the team and its supporters is not generated by a hatred of sectarianism but by a hatred of everything to do with Northern Ireland as a separate entity."

That's the old excuse. There will be much discontent amongst Welsh supporters tonight towards the NI fans and it has nothing to do with politics.

"Welsh anthem was booed-shouldn't have happened, but it wasn't generated by sectarianism."

It was an anti-Welsh gesture.

"John Hartson got a hard time, as I said before, he's a thug and gets stick everywhere he played.

He was VOCIFEROUSLY booed tonight. Why? Because he plays for Celtic.

"He probably would have got a better reception in Cyprus judging by the vast number of Celtic shirts on show."

Probably wouldn't have been booed, no. I thought our fans were great in Cyprus. Respected the opposing team's anthem and everything. No nasty chants. Great job.

"Remind me again, why do the "greatest supporters in the world" feel the need to wear that particular Scottish club's rather than their own team's shirts?"

If you mean why do ROI fans, whose team play in green, wear Celtic shirts who also play in green, I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that well...both teams play in green. That's my best guess. If you have another theory I'd like to hear it.

"Unlike certain other sporting bodies in Ireland, at least the IFA has realised there is a problem and has made attempts to alleviate the situation."

What attempts would they be? And on the basis of tonight's display by NI fans, has sectarianism been 'given the boot' do you think?

"Also have a look on the OWC board tonight and you'll see that decent fans are castigating the morons within our fan base."

I'm not a big fan of that site as I'm sure you know.

"In time, hopefully sooner rather than later, both the IFA and the fans will completely remove any traces of sectarianism which still remain. But if and when that day comes,I still don't think it'll be enough for the likes of yourself, Green Giant, Crim and Wiliam."

If the NI team reaches out to nationalists, in the way the NI state has reached out to nationalists in recent years, it will be quite enough for me and I'm sure many others.

"Now if you excuse me, I'm off to Vienna for Wed night's game and I have to get my sash dusted and
bowler polished ;) Don't worry,I'll send you a postcard right from the middle of the hatefest!"

Careful about sending a postcard to Ireland, you may upset a nasty element of the NI fanbase. ;)

How does the singing of Rule britannia create an all inclusive atmosphere at windsor park ?

The majority of supporters were happy to sing the song today.

So Catholics are welcome to attend northern ireland games as long as they sing god save the queen (with 'no surrender' add on), Join in to 'rule britannia', sing to another wee rendition of gstq and boo a player from the opposing team who happens to play for Celtic.

Sure they could have hitched a lift to the match on the all inclusive open decked bus with the hugh union jack drapped over the side !!

Thats 'Huge' union jack (as in large cross community type emblem)

JEB,

"Regarding Hartson - grow up - it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team."

I thought it was the job of the fans to SUPPORT their team, hence the tag of SUPPORTERS.
But then it was norn iron 'supporters' with a good loyalist base and long tradition of negativism.

"The Red Hand of Ulster is the oldest symbol on the island of ireland. How is displaying it make a cold house? Tyrone GAA matches mustn't have a Catholic about the place, all those red hands they must be a big bunch of anti-Catholic bigots."

Maybe because the flags flown tend to include a hell of a lot of the former (as it is no longer official) Northern Ireland flag of the Old Stormont Unionist regime i.e. 6 sided star for the 6 counties with a Crown on top, to which Northern Nationalists do not feel loyalty as they want NI to be part of the Republic of Ireland. Also, songs like "The Sash" and "Rule Brittania" and "God Save the Queen" obviously are going to turn off 41% of the NI population. So the remark about Windsor Park being a Cold House for Catholics is entirely valid.

Hard luck to the north and their fans following a thrilling match.

Though never a supporter of the northern team, I believe it would be churlish to not accept the efforts made by the IFA to eradicate the worst excesses of sectarianism within Windsor Park.

Today I actually sat down to watch a northern Ireland game for the first time in many, many years. I watched an excellent football match- not in terms of skill but rather excitement- which resulted in five goals, played in front of enthusiastic fans.

Fair play to the IFA for tackling sectarianism. They have clearly some work still to do to take the political element out of the support base- as the singing of Rule Britannia and cries of No surrender illustrate- but, again, I must say I truly believe the vast majority of fans were only there to have a good time at a sporting event.

On the booing of Hartson, I can only say that it disappointed but didn't surprise me. AND I will state that, having been at matches in Lansdowne when Rangers players were booed -albeit by a much smaller element than witnessed today- it is equally repugnant in Dublin as in Belfast.

Now, that said, let me say why the IFA campaign as intimated by their President, Jim Boyce, is destined to fail.

Following the team's stunning victory over England, we witnessed an unprecedented effort by Boyce and others through the media to call on nationalists to throw their wholehearted support behind the team. In a memorable interview, Boyce stated with not a little amount of frustration on UTV that "anyone born in northern Ireland should be supporting the team."

This type of statement was reminiscent of an interview conducted with a senior IFA official, David Bowen, several years ago when he criticised the "ease with which people born in the north could get Irish passports."

Sooner or later we are all going to have to accept the right of each other to determine our own cultural and political allegiances and respect those decisions.

As a Belfast man, my only loyalties at international level are to the Irish team playing out of Lansdowne Road- always have been and probably will be. The fact that players come from all parts of Ireland and the Diaspora to represent the team will always endear them to nationalists, as will the complete absence of any political sentiment on the terracing (or should that be bucket seats?) and the admittedly 'nationalist' character of the team's emblems.

The best Boyce and Bowen and others should hope for is that people like me develop a liking for their team as a second preference of sorts- and I would hope for reciprocation from northern Ireland supporters.

In the meantime, small steps are the order of the day. Let's start by hoping for two Irish victories on Wednesday night and many more to follow.

Good post irishman

The treatment of Hartson by the north's fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north's fans are still as sectarian as ever.

crat, does this mean that the lansdowne road fans, who booed Rangers players, are sectarian

Irishman - bit of common sense at last. Yes - lets hope the boys in green bring 6 points back on Wednesday and extra special good luck to the Republic who still have a decent chance of qualifying.

John East Belfast - the crowd DID sing Rule Bitannia which was a tad cringeworthy to say the least.

About time the NI team adopted a new anthem. With all due respect, GSTQ is hardly representative - we should follow the example of the Jocks and Taffs. I reckon something to the tune of Teenage Kicks would do the job nicely.

'Bucket seats'

i've splashed the cash and have an east touchline seat.

60 f'ing euro's.

Some of us Belfast boys are prepared to invest the extra 20 euro to watch the game from a better position.

It could be worse ,i could be back in those god awful seats on the north terrace.

Here's hoping for a victory on Wednesday.

bigpatsbighands

Does this mean you accept that the booing of Hartson was sectarian ?

Given that:

1)The IFA has made big leaps in terms of de-secterianising the game

2)Some people do still sing 'no surrender'etc

3)The majority of NI supporters here and elsewhere have condemned the boo-ing

Is it possible that perhaps some people are actively looking for something to get stuck into NI for? Windsor is a much nicer place for everyone concerned now, I lived on Lower Windsor Avenue last year, and just round the corner the year before and I can say that the majority of people of people who are there singing 'Rule Britannia' are the same people who, if they were of a Nationalist nature, would sing rebel songs at Lansdowne. Just a bit of craic, hardly intended to be sectarian, it's a celebration rather than an attack, but I agree it should go, and so should GSTQ. As for those people who actually are trying to be sectarian? They're a lot fewer in number now, and most of them are hanging around loveulster.com, telling each other how prod they are, which tells you all you need to know about them.

Good game today, Hartson's a violent bugger, and he gets booed in almost every game he plays; the Lennon fiasco made sure there was a clamping down of the anti-Celtic thing.

Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn't wash.

Given that:

1)The IFA has made big leaps in terms of de-secterianising the game

2)Some people do still sing 'no surrender'etc

3)The majority of NI supporters here and elsewhere have condemned the boo-ing

Is it possible that perhaps some people are actively looking for something to get stuck into NI for? Windsor is a much nicer place for everyone concerned now, I lived on Lower Windsor Avenue last year, and just round the corner the year before and I can say that the majority of people of people who are there singing 'Rule Britannia' are the same people who, if they were of a Nationalist nature, would sing rebel songs at Lansdowne. Just a bit of craic, hardly intended to be sectarian, it's a celebration rather than an attack, but I agree it should go, and so should GSTQ. As for those people who actually are trying to be sectarian? They're a lot fewer in number now, and most of them are hanging around loveulster.com, telling each other how prod they are, which tells you all you need to know about them.

Good game today, Hartson's a violent bugger, and he gets booed in almost every game he plays; the Lennon fiasco made sure there was a clamping down of the anti-Celtic thing.

Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn't wash.

To anyone who feels like Windsor may be a cold house for them, come down, get your arms in the air, and anytime anyone starts being a bigot, we'll all just start shouting 'Green And White Army!'

stu

"Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn't wash."

LOL. It washes quite well. Tell us then why some ROI fans wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches?

I've been to Ireland matches and seen fans wear their county colours, alot of which are green, for example Mayo's. I figured it was due to the colour green. Perhaps you have a different theory on that too?

For Goodness sake, the NI Fans know some of their fans have disgraced their team today and set back their Football for All Campaign, there is no need to rub it in,their support against England was amazing,they were let down by a few lunatics today, all countries have these sort of people Enjoy the cyprus result(if not the performance) and look forward to booking a trip to Germany next summer.
Celtic/Ireland connection does not have to be explained,as Celtic is a club steeped in irishness, located in Scotland, that is the reason so many Celtic shirts are worn at ROI games.

I have a good friend who supports northern ireland (now that they are doing well), he used to come down with me to Lansdowne Road during the 'lean' years for the north.

He enjoyed following which ever Irish team was doing well during a particular period.

Fair weather supporter , i know , but he just loves the game.

He managed to blag his way behind the scenes after the England game at Windsor, looking a few autoghaphs etc...

Anyway, he ended up behind Jim Boyce while waiting to try and meet a few of the players etc... The guy giving out the results on the intercom started letting people know the results from the other games in the group and the other groups. When he announced that the French had beaten the Republic at Lansedowne road, Jim Boyce raised his hand in glee,

Why would the president of the ifa do this, any ideas.

The booing of Hartson was as sectarian as the booing of the Rangers players.

He's glad to see the next nearest team get beat, like Arsene Wenger would if Chelsea got beat.

I think CavanMan pointed out clearly enough that every country has its lunatics, ours more than some.

If we're going to get involved in finger pointing, I'll say that Roy Keane called Mick McCarthy 'an English cunt' and leave it at that. Not holding it against him, football's a competitve game.

stu

"If we're going to get involved in finger pointing, I'll say that Roy Keane called Mick McCarthy 'an English cunt' and leave it at that. Not holding it against him, football's a competitve game."

I should hope you don't hold that agaisnt Keane seeing as he never actually called McCarthy an 'English cunt'.

Why let the truth ruin a good story though, eh?

1. Time to lose the anthem...it is the British anthem, lets get something that provides an identity for NI. Yes, we are British but so are the Welsh and Scots.

2. Time to lose the Red Hand flag. This flag of Ulster cannot be seperated from paramilitary terror orgainzations at this point. It is akin to the confederate flag in the US, the old rising sun flag of imperial Japan and the nazi flag of Germany. A new flag is in order. Let the terror groups have the blood-stained red hand and those who want peace in NI can move forward with a new flag.

Proud to be British, proud to be a NI fan but recognize the need for some change.

Presumably Tryone are designing a new GAA kit even as we type...

"It is appalling that ANY visting National Anthem is booed, but unfortunately it is inevitable tomorrow."

NI is not a nation and GSTQ is not its anthem

I am not a nation but GSTQ is my athem.

GSTQ shouldn't be played in NI matches. I find it offennsive I live in a town where the sectarian clubs/drinking dens play GSTQ to see if anyone is an 'IRA supporter' creating a kind of social apartheid.
I've never stood for the Queen in my life and I never will.

Insider,

You can take it as read that Jim Boyce's favourite other international team is the Republic of Ireland.

'Hartson is a violent thug, masquerading as a professional football player'

Jaysus, only in soccer could you possibly call Hartson a thug. Good one that. Made me laugh out loud.

Soccer is shite.

Really. I mean it.

It's just shite.

Gwen,

"one of the commentators stated that he had never heard such disrespect given to a national anthem in all his years of commentating, he did mention that a section of the crowd had booed god save the queen at the Millenium stadium during the first game, but had never known, basically, a full stadium shout and boo during the playing of any anthem. He also mentioned that the crowd then started singing to drown out the remainder of the anthem."

The "commentator" has got his facts sadly wrong.

Avail yourself of a recording of the match in Cardiff last year, and of the Wales v England game in Cardiff three weeks ago.

Then come back and we can talk about "who booed the loudest".

Whilst it was a sizeable minority who booed LOMF yesterday, it most definately was not "basically, a full stadium".

Booing of anthems is disrespectful, whether it's Welsh, Scottish or ROI fans booing GSTQ (all of which seem to have been forgotten in the detractor fest), or NI fans booing LOMF.

Carlos,

"GSTQ shouldn't be played in NI matches. I find it offennsive"

Are you a Northern Ireland supporter? Do you go to their matches?

Some things you should know, if you are a "wannabe" Northern Ireland fan.

1. Like every other team, we have some supporters who have the potential to misbehave.

2. Like some other teams (eg, Rangers, Celtic & the ROI), we have some supporters who are a bit "political".

3. Our flag is the flag of Northern Ireland. (until further notice)

4. Our anthem is God Save The Queen (until further notice)

5. Many of our fans are not exactly the best of buddies with Irish Republicans. Irish Republicans want to see the destruction of Northern Ireland, including it's football team.

Irish Republicans twice targeted Northern Ireland fans leaving Windsor Park in the 1980's, potentially murdering hundreds of innocent supporters.

Northern Ireland supporters have a right to come to games and not witness religious bigotry etc...the IFA and fans are constantly working hard to try and deal with this issue, as best they possibly can. As a Northern Ireland supporter, you could help in this cause.

If all of the above are OK with you, great.

If not, go and support somebody else.

Had an interesting conversation about this in the pub after actually going to the game.

The booing of the Welsh Anthem and of Hartson may well be wrong - but the motivation for much of it was as a result of the match in Wales. Its intersting that our nationalist friends on this site now have so little opportunity to criticise NI football matches that they have to take offence on behalf of Welsh people!

Hartson deserved to get booed because of his style of play - its just a shame that at a Northern Ireland match these days you have to sit down and work out the extensive political ramafications that having a go at an agressive player can have.

Is shouting "who are ya?" repeatedly at Giggs also a symptom of the rampant bigotry which some people want to see around every corner? Someone has already mentioned the repeated incidents of Rangers players being booed at RoI mathes - 2 wrongs dont make a right but they're all big boys and I'm sure Hartson isnt crying into his cornflakes this morning over those nasty people in Windsor Park.

As was mentioned, there was absolutely no sectarian chanting or singing of any kind. Some people just oppose the very existance of Northern Ireland and will therefore find fault with the most minor of things.

But... as the banner on the South Stand said...

WE EXIST!!!!!

Maybe I would go to Northern Ireland matches if they didn't play GSTQ realist until then it doesn't represent me.
How can you argue the case for having a regional football team if you are against regional identity (By playing GSTQ)

Carlos,
Unfortunately for you GSTQ is here to stay.....

Also, why is it that I get the feeling that if the anthem was changed then you would find some other convenient excuse?

"This flag of Ulster cannot be seperated from paramilitary terror orgainzations at this point. It is akin to the confederate flag in the US, the old rising sun flag of imperial Japan and the nazi flag of Germany."

Yes as I'm sure there are half starved slaves constructing gas chambers as the flag of NI flutters over their heads. Or perhaps it is totally ridiculous to compare the Northern Ireland's flag to Nazi Germany's.

The scum of the BNP are fond of the Union Jack, should they be allowed to claim ownership of it from the people of the UK? Republican terrorsts have a fetish for the tricolour, should the citizens of the RoI abandon their flag? If not then why should people in NI abandon their flag?

Rupert, it was sung once during the match. I'm reminded of a rottweiler who won't let go of a bone...

"Maybe I would go to Northern Ireland matches if they didn't play GSTQ realist until then it doesn't represent me. "
Carlos: can you suggest a suitable alternative? (forget Danny Boy)

Carlos,

"Maybe I would go to Northern Ireland matches if they didn't play GSTQ realist until then it doesn't represent me."

Is that the anthem or the team doesn't represent you?

"Its intersting that our nationalist friends on this site now have so little opportunity to criticise NI football matches that they have to take offence on behalf of Welsh people!"

Good point yerman...also interesting that Welsh fans on various fans websites aren't taking much offence. They perhaps understand that if you dish it out, as they did in Cardiff, you have to be prepared to take some back in return.

Here, before I go to Austria, I was wondering....are Glasgow Celtic players a protected species, that everybody must like? lol

Realist...were you addressing your "wanabe" comments to me? I hope not. I have been a NI fan since you were in nappies or before. I have been attending matches at Windsor since 1978 and have probably seen more matches at the park than the vast majority of posters here.
How is it that the Welsh can take pride in an anthem they can call their own...doesn't make them any less British.
You cannot deny that the Ulster flag is the logo of terror groups. I am simply stating facts.
What does not being "the best of buddies with Irish Republicans" have anything to do with this conversation? As pointed out many times on this site, there are no plans for a merger and no one is going to take away the NI team. What does the fact that the provos targeted supporters in the 1980s have to to with this conversation? They are a terror group willing to kill innocents, we know that. Thats why I loath them as much as you do. However, they are no different than those that use the Ulster flag in their willingness to kill innocents.
You said "IFA and fans are constantly working hard to try and deal with this issue, as best they possibly can. As a Northern Ireland supporter, you could help in this cause"...I am helping in the cause by pointing out that the flag is one associated with terror groups so lets change it. I also help in this cause by bringing catholic workmates to games, and have done so for years. They should be made to feel very comfortable in their seats just as you are. Lets not confuse the provos with catholics who just want to see a (hopefully) decent football match free of bigotry and hate. It make come as a shock to you, but some of NIs best players over the years have been catholic. Do they not deserve to have their families and friends show up to games at Windsor to enjoy a sporting event?

"Carlos,
Unfortunately for you GSTQ is here to stay....."

Does that mean that a British citizen of NI who supports a British republic with NI as a part is not welcome as a fan?

Realist

In all seriousness, enjoy yourself in Austria :) Hope you support the team to victory.

Fan For Change,

My comments were not addressed to you...they were addressed to any "wannabe Northern Ireland fan".

Regarding the flag, I'm not for change.

Regarding the anthem, I am for change.

"It make come as a shock to you, but some of NIs best players over the years have been catholic."

It may come as a shock to you, but I have been watching Northern Ireland since long before 1978.

I am not one bit interested what religion, if any, a player is.

I am not one bit interested what religion, if any, a fan is.

I travel around the world supporting Northern Ireland with some fellas who say they are Protestant, some fellas who say they are Catholic, and some who say they couldn't give a fcuk about religion.

"Do they not deserve to have their families and friends show up to games at Windsor to enjoy a sporting event?"

Of course they do...what a silly comment.

"Lets not confuse the provos with catholics who just want to see a (hopefully) decent football match free of bigotry and hate."

Who is confusing the two?

"Celtic/Ireland connection does not have to be explained,as Celtic is a club steeped in irishness, located in Scotland, that is the reason so many Celtic shirts are worn at ROI games"

Cavanman

"“Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn't wash."
LOL. It washes quite well. Tell us then why some ROI fans wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches?”"

UI

Sorry for the late comeback on this one guys. Why do Republic fans prefer to wear Celtic shirts rather than that of the team they’re actually watching?

My guess is that Cavanman is closer to the real reason here. Yes, Celtic are a club “steeped in irishness” but it’s a very exclusive type of Irishness, nationalist and let’s be honest about this, Catholic. I can’t speak for the position in the Republic, but in Northern Ireland a Celtic or Rangers shirt is very much a visible badge of identity, a kind of two fingers, “in yer face” gesture to those of a different political or religious persuasion.

For me the Republic’s team are an irrelevance, but I’m sure there are others of a non-nationalist viewpoint who might consider adopting the Republic as their second team if this kind of thing( along with the divisive anthem and flag ;)) was addressed by the fanbase and supporters club themselves.

You’re watching your country, why not wear its shirt with pride not that of some third rate Scottish team?

PS UI, I’ve sorted out the postcard problem, I’ll address it to Dublin, British Isles, OK? :)

Manny that's disgusting, I hope the police escorted them to the nearest vacant cell.

If the people of NI (from both sides) can't even support sports teams with out the whole thing turning into a sectarian hate fest how can you expect any better from your politicians.

Realist - I respect your response and your position on the items on our agenda (lol) ... like anyone with pull is listening.

In any case, what I most appreciate is your personal attitude towards support of NI. I think we share quite a bit of common ground.

Paul

"My guess is that Cavanman is closer to the real reason here. Yes, Celtic are a club “steeped in irishness” but it’s a very exclusive type of Irishness, nationalist and let’s be honest about this, Catholic. I can’t speak for the position in the Republic, but in Northern Ireland a Celtic or Rangers shirt is very much a visible badge of identity, a kind of two fingers, “in yer face” gesture to those of a different political or religious persuasion."

Paul, I think I can speak for the Republic and here, as recent polls have indicated, Irish people are frequently looking on the old issues of the past as an irrelevance. I might not like that but it's a reality. If you seriously think that the Irish people who wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches are doing so purely to annoy unionists like yourself, then I suggest you work on the paranoia. As you yourself acknowledged, Celtic and Irishness are synonymous with each other. I presume someone people with Celtic jerseys don't feel the need to splash out cash on an Ireland jersey when they feel they can simply wear their Celtic jersey.

"You’re watching your country, why not wear its shirt with pride not that of some third rate Scottish team?"

As I said, some Irish fans who own Celtic jerseys more than likely don't see the need in paying for an Ireland one as well.

What about Irish fans who wear their county colours to matches? As I've said, I've seen people in Mayo jerseys and other county colours. Is that a form of disrespect as well? I wouldn't say so.

"PS UI, I’ve sorted out the postcard problem, I’ll address it to Dublin, British Isles, OK? :)"

Careful Paul. 'Dublin' and 'British' haven't appeared together in a long time. Those handling the post might think you're an American with a poor knowledge of geography and simply throw it out. How about - Baile Átha Cliath, an Phoblacht na hÉireann? ;)

While my support at international level admittedly lies closer to Lansdowne Rd I do however like to see the wee six doing the business whenever they can so it was an unfortunate result for the lads in Windsor.

However, to be realistic, it would seem pie in the sky football to expect things to be turned around overnight after a drought of competitive wins in four years followed by a victory of the mighty giants of international soccer, Azerbaijan, and then the spectacular giant-killing of England.

The behaviour of [sections?] of the fans was an altogether completely different affair. I was relegated, [no pun intended], to listening to the match on Radio Ulster and ‘Rule Britannia’ was clearly audible over the airwaves, it’s hardly a welcome sign to encourage support from Belfastonians such as myself and others from a nationalist persuasion is it?.

Some of the comments regarding the booing of John Hartson seem almost to excuse the fact, which everyone knows, Hartson got stick simply because of which Scottish team he plays for.

f_d -

“You cheer your own team and you jeer your opponents”

JEB -

“It is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team."

I wonder would Neil Lennon agree with these opinions?.

I wonder would Neil Lennon agree with these opinions?.

What was I saying about that Rottweiler with his bone?

"If you seriously think that the Irish people who wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches are doing so purely to annoy unionists like yourself, then I suggest you work on the paranoia"

UI,

My original post was about the situation in NI. Look the next time there is a sectarian riot being broadcast on TV, Celtic (and Rangers on the other side) shirts will be worn by a fair proportion of the thugs. In N.Ireland they ARE a badge of religious and political identity.

I'll take your word for it that the population in the Republic have grown out of this kind of nonsense. I'm not that annoyed or paranoid about it, this intertwining of sport and politics is just another sad fact about life in NI. I just have to accept it.

UI,
with regards the postcard, you don't seriously expect me to remember "Baile Átha Cliath, an Phoblacht na hÉireann?". On the other hand, I also don't want to be confused with an American with a shaky grasp of geography.

So how about
Dublin,
Region 36(Western),
European Union

As a loyal and devoted subject of Brussels, I know you'll have no problem with that ;)

I’m sorry if I seem to be harping on about some previously unsavoury moments re the Windsor supporters and their treatment of Neil Lennon Beano but I believe it’s a valid point in light of f_d & JCB’s remarks. I.e. isn’t it likely that some of the people involved in the abuse of Lennon still inhabit Windsor and isn’t it reasonable that they were also involved in the behaviour directed towards Hartson?.

If this premise is accepted then, going by past performances, surely the treatment Hartson was subjected to cannot be dismissed simply as some kind of psychological upsetting tactic used solely for the purposes of winning the match?.

Paul,

I accept that in the north, wearing the Celtic jersey may adopt a different meaning. I really don't think the same is true for Irish football fnas here in the south. I know Celtic fans who wear their Ireland jerseys to Celtic matches. The two jerseys are regarded as practically one and the same. I don't think there's anything malciious in that though.

On the postcard, just simply write:

"To the greatest city on earth..."

Don't worry. It will end up in Dublin. ;)

"Realist - I respect your response and your position on the items on our agenda (lol) ... like anyone with pull is listening.

In any case, what I most appreciate is your personal attitude towards support of NI. I think we share quite a bit of common ground."

Fan For Change,

The IFA do listen. Northern Ireland fans who were disgusted by some of the antics yesterday will be making them listen.

The words of NI legend, Pat Jennings, today.

"I have to say that once again our fans were unbelievable, singing all the way through even when we were two goals down.

They are amazing, but I thought those that booed and whilstled the Welsh anthem let themselves down, even if it was a reaction to a similar response from the Welsh fans in Cardiff. It was sad to hear."

UI,

Interesting that on your own blog today you claim that Glasgow Celtic are "a club synonymous with Irishness/Catholicism".

The irony of that, I trust is not lost on you.

Looking back at some of your comments on this thread about ROI supporters wearing Celtic shirts, you are saying that that is "synonomous with Catholicism".

Recently on your blog, you denied that the booing of Rangers players at ROI matches was sectarian, claiming that it was because "most Irish fans are also Celtic fans" in defence.

Does it get more sectarian than that friend?

By the way, John Hartson is a Protestant...he was to sign for Glasgow Rangers, but unfortunately failed a medical examination.

manny,

Disgusting behaviour. Thankfully the vast majority of Welsh fans enjoyed their trip to Belfast, and received excellent hospitality from local fans.

The same was the case for us in Cardiff last year, but unfortunately some members of the infamous Cardiff City "Soul Crew" took it upon themselves to attack Northern Ireland fans in the "Prince of Wales" pub, with several NI fans sustaining injuries.

Welsh fans also rioted during their visit to Manchester last year to play England.

Their supporters will tell you that there is regular trouble on their "away" trips amongst their own support...Cardiff Soul Crew and the fans of Swansea City fight the bit out.

They too have a scum element in their support...the vast majority of their fans are magnificant.

Hovis,

How many people were involved in that disgusting behaviour?

Did you get their seat numbers to report them to the stewards and the IFA?

I heard Earnshaw being booed because of his time wasting and playacting antics (I booed him myself), but certainly did not hear any "monkey taunts".

Let us know what the IFA reply to your complaint.

Hovis,

How many people were involved in that disgusting behaviour?

Did you get their seat numbers to report them to the stewards and the IFA?

I heard Earnshaw being booed because of his time wasting and playacting antics (I booed him myself), but certainly did not hear any "monkey taunts".

Let us know what the IFA reply to your complaint.

'Realist'

"Looking back at some of your comments on this thread about ROI supporters wearing Celtic shirts, you are saying that that is "synonomous with Catholicism"."

Correct.

"Recently on your blog, you denied that the booing of Rangers players at ROI matches was sectarian, claiming that it was because "most Irish fans are also Celtic fans" in defence."

Also correct.

"Does it get more sectarian than that friend?"

If you're talking about Windsor park, then no it doesn't. You see the North's team and the Republic's team are quite different. In the North, if you play for a certain club or are of a certain religious persuasion, you can be given a torrid time by fans. With the ROI team, people of all religions, and let's face it nationalities, for example Tony Cascarino, have played for the ROI team without any hassle from fans.

It's called tolerance friend.;)

The latest downright lie about Monkey taunts is really scraping the bottom of the barrel in the "lets taint NI Supporters at all costs" campaign being orchestrated by a few biggoted pricks on this thread.

He was booed and cxalled cheat for constantly falling over and getting awarded free kicks. Not once did race or Monkey chants come into it - it is total bull shit

The revealing comments by Realist about United Ireland's defence of booing Rangers fans and his statement that Celtic and Catholic are synonomous reveals just how far his head is up his own arse when it comes to making coherent comments about NI.

I admire your spirited defence Realist but I think with these people you are talking to a brick wall - but its worth highlighting both their lies and stupidity I suppose

"There was an incident yesterday when northern ireland fans who were travelling on an open top bus to the game, attacked 2 young lads with bottles and other missiles because they were wearing republic of ireland tops.

Utterly sectarian behaviour"

Absolutely Joe...utterly dispicable. I believe the culprits will be identified and appropriate action taken.

By the way, if I were you I would report this incident to the news...UI informs me that if such incidents are not reported in a reputable news source, they didn't happen.

You will no doubt be aware that buses containing Northern Ireland supporters were attacked by a gang of masked republican youths (which appears may have been a premeditated sectarian attack) en route to the game.

"In the North, if you play for a certain club or are of a certain religious persuasion, you can be given a torrid time by fans."

And similarly in the Republic.

"With the ROI team, people of all religions, and let's face it nationalities, for example Tony Cascarino, have played for the ROI team without any hassle from fans."

Except if you happen to be a Rangers player.

With all Northern Ireland teams, players from the Catholic and Protestant traditions play, players of other nationalities play (Maik Taylor) with the full support of the fans.

Your lack of knowledge on these matters is quite embarrassing.

John East Belfast

"The revealing comments by Realist about United Ireland's defence of booing Rangers fans and his statement that Celtic and Catholic are synonomous reveals just how far his head is up his own arse when it comes to making coherent comments about NI."

More ad hominem attacks from John. Maybe one day he'll actually play the ball and not the man. One can hope.

John, perhaps your debating style would be suited elsewhere. Like, oh I don't know, UTV's site or perhaps the Love Ulster site?

Regards.

'Realist'

"And similarly in the Republic."

Wrong.

"Except if you happen to be a Rangers player."

I believe it was Ireland's Alan Maybury who went on record to declare that he wanted to play for Rangers. Don't recall him getting booed at all....

"With all Northern Ireland teams, players from the Catholic and Protestant traditions play, players of other nationalities play (Maik Taylor) with the full support of the fans"

They play but they run the risk of suffering abuse. Hardly surprising when Windsor Park is a cold house for those of the green tradition. 'Rule Britannia' isn't exactly inclusive is it?

"Your lack of knowledge on these matters is quite embarrassing."

It's embarrassing for NI fans and the IFA, yes. I'm sorry I have to embarrass you by highlighting the disgusting bigotry at Windsor park but it's the only way you'll learn. :)

"Does that (GSTQ being here to stay) mean that a British citizen of NI who supports a British republic with NI as a part is not welcome as a fan?"

Absolutely not. Anyone who is from NI (or further afield) and wants to come and support NI is entirely welcome. However, for those who are violently opposed to the very existance of Northern Ireland then I neither see them wanting to come and support NI or actually doing so.

Am I welcome at Lansdown Road to a rugby match where the Soldiers Song is played? Yes. There are many people from NI who dont particularly like that happening at rugby matches, but they get on with it and support the team - not continually whinge about how oppressed we are by the jackboot of the IRFU.

As for the attack on the Lisburn Rd - there were plenty of police around yesterday and I seen several of the landrovers with videocameras on top - no doubt the scum who perpetrated such an attack will be quickly identified (if they have not already been) and will face the full weight of justice. I hope though that the other 13,000 or so NI fans who were at the game wont be judged by the actions of 3 or 4 scumbags.

"The most worrying part of the events of yesterday was the racist 'monkey taunts' directed at Robert Earnshaw."

There were absolutely NO racist or sectarian chants at the match yesterday, not even by a few isolated individuals. I actually was a little concerned that some muppets might try and start some chating when he was being booed for his timewasting antics. Thankfully there was no problem - apart from the scoreline.

UI,

Please.

Are you seriously telling us that Rangers players playing against the ROI have not received a "torrid time" from ROI fans?

"They play but they run the risk of suffering abuse."

They don't.

"It's embarrassing for NI fans and the IFA, yes. I'm sorry I have to embarrass you by highlighting the disgusting bigotry at Windsor park but it's the only way you'll learn"

As someone who hasn't missed one Northern Ireland game at Windsor Park in over 10 years, and only a handful in the last 30 years, I don't think I have much to learn from someone who couldn't even find the place.

As someone who is fully supportive of actions to eliminate "disgusting bigotry" at Windsor Park, and who spends a lot of my life highlighting it, denouncing it and trying to do something about it, I don't think you can teach me anything about that either.

"Most of them were happy to sing 'rule britannia' during the game (in an inclusive and non intimidating way, of course)"

lawry,

Let us assume that all of those in the West Stand (the only place were RB was sung from), and that it was full to capactity (4000 people).

How does that constitute "most" of the 13,000 or so NI fans in attendance?

PS: It wasn't even "most" of the West Stand.

'Realist'

"Are you seriously telling us that Rangers players playing against the ROI have not received a "torrid time" from ROI fans?"

A small section of the Lansdowne Road has been known to boo. Yesterday it seemed the overwhelming majority of those in the ground were booing Hartson. In fairness, I've always heard Goerge Hamilton condemn the minority who have engaged in it. I can't remember Jackie Fullerton doing likewise yesterday.

"They don't."

Oh they do. Just ask Pat Jennings, Anton Rogan or Neil Lennon.

"As someone who hasn't missed one Northern Ireland game at Windsor Park in over 10 years, and only a handful in the last 30 years, I don't think I have much to learn from someone who couldn't even find the place."

But you turn a blind eye to the bigotry in the ground. And I can assure you I have no intention of finding such a sectarian stronghold like Windsor Park!

"As someone who is fully supportive of actions to eliminate "disgusting bigotry" at Windsor Park, and who spends a lot of my life highlighting it, denouncing it and trying to do something about it, I don't think you can teach me anything about that either"

You can't be taught to acknowledge and denounce the bigotry of NI fans if you turn a blind eye to it so you're right in that sense.

Nothing to say about the monkey chants against Robert Earnshaw which some people on this thread are reporting?

"A small section of the Lansdowne Road has been known to boo."

A small section? And why do they boo?

"Yesterday it seemed the overwhelming majority of those in the ground were booing Hartson"

It was a vociferous minority.

"I can't remember Jackie Fullerton doing likewise yesterday"

Jackie must be a bigot then.:)

"Oh they do. Just ask Pat Jennings, Anton Rogan or Neil Lennon."

Did you read Pat's comments about the fans yesterday...I posted them above?

I believe that Anton & Neil played for Celtic?

Any others you know who have been "abused"?

"But you turn a blind eye to the bigotry in the ground."

I don't...I comment on it all the time.

"And I can assure you I have no intention of finding such a sectarian stronghold like Windsor Park!"

Thank God for that! :)

"Nothing to say about the monkey chants against Robert Earnshaw which some people on this thread are reporting?"

I have commented...see an earlier post.

I heard nothing of that nature yesterday.

First highlighted by a NI fan on the OWC website....but, of course, Northern Ireland fans turn a blind eye to such incidents.

The perpetrator(s) should be reported and banned from Windsor Park for life.

I have asked Hovis if he got the seat numbers of those involved.

"You can't be taught to acknowledge and denounce the bigotry of NI fans if you turn a blind eye to it so you're right in that sense."

I do acknowledge it and have repeatedly and consistently denounced it.

You acknowledged that yourself on your blog...TODAY!

You said you were crystal claer about my denounciation.

Maybe you're thinking about someone else?

United Irelander

In terms of you I play the man not the ball because you are not playing with a ball.

You are simply making hysterical and sweeping statements in an attempt to smear the entire NI fan base.

To do that you are using historical and/or isolated and minority recent incidents to support your pre-determined position.
One cannot argue with that other than to waste time highlighting what you are saying is not true or is not truly typical.

Others have the patience to get into a Oh No it is Oh No it isn't rant with you - I don't. If you spoke to me in a bar the way you are posting here I would call you an irritating prick and tell you to go away. Therefore I am not saying anything here I wouldn't say to your face.

Also when you talk about attacking the man you have to realise the NI Fan base is not some mythical bunch of unseen spides - it includes me and my 15 year old son. You are attacking me, my family and friends - so don't be surprised if I shovel some of your shit back at you.

You have no notion whatsoever of the typical NI fan and I would be surprised if you ever had met one.

The VAST AND OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF NI Fans are people like me and not what you are trying to portray.

The problems of yesterday started in Cardiff when the Welsh fans disgracefully booed GSTQ. Are you telling me that if the Soldiers Song was booed in Cardiff somebody at Landsdowne Road would not have booed LOFM ? There is not a country in the world that would have reacted with the restraint the NI Fans did to LOMF.
The entire North Stand Upper Tier was silent - I suspect the same with the Lower - SOME of the West Stand couldn't help themselves.

I have yet to hear Rule Britannia but as I totally missed it at the game it couldn't have been that major a part of 95 mimutes of football.

Anyone monkey chanting should have been ejected from the ground but once again I can only assume it was the person standing beside them that heard the handful doing it.

The match was passionate - coming after a grudge match in Cardiff where Wales ended up with 10 on the pitch and NI with 9.

The NI Fan base has come on leaps and bounds in recent years and I do take ill informed and prejudiced statements personnally.

Is my 11 year old son a bigot too YI?

Are all of my friends, both Catholic & Protestant, who travel around the world supporting NI also bigots?

Are the vast majority of people (Catholics and Protestants) who go to Windsor Park to see Northern Ireland play bigots for entering into that "sectarian stronghold"?

Do you know any of these bigots personally?

Have you ever met a Northern Ireland fan?

Were they a bigot?

You need to be absolutely clear by what you mean with your broadbrush, wild allegations.

I don't take too kindly either to lectures from those who do not have the best interests of the Northern Ireland team and it's fans at heart.

Please be specific about your "NI bigots" allegations.

UI, a bit courtesy please! Surely it's possible to make your point without repeatedly resorting to the term bigot or bigotry? It's both lazy, and decidedly uncivil.

Neil

Your spelling mistakes remind me of someone else who just really loves Northern Ireland.

What were your seat numbers?

neil

you "managed to get a couple of tickets for the Kop Stand" ?

There is no Kop Stand ?

What exactly did it say on your ticket /

Who are the two main corporate sponsoor logos ?

How does it describ the date ?

08.10.05, 08.10.2005, 8th October 2005, 2005, 8th October - or some other ?

If you are genuine you can come straight back with an answer

'Realist'

"A small section? And why do they boo?"

Yes a small section. They booed because the players were Rangers players. You know that so why ask?

"It was a vociferous minority."

I don't think a minority can be that vociferous.

"Jackie must be a bigot then.:)"

Nah, just a bit ignorant. ;)

"Did you read Pat's comments about the fans yesterday...I posted them above?"

No.

"I believe that Anton & Neil played for Celtic?"

I believe you're right.

"Thank God for that! :)"

Indeed.:)

"I heard nothing of that nature yesterday."

Do you think it's untrue then?

"First highlighted by a NI fan on the OWC website....but, of course, Northern Ireland fans turn a blind eye to such incidents."

Not all of them. Let's not tar everyone with the same brush.:)

"You said you were crystal claer about my denounciation."

So why change the goalposts (no pun intended)

Mick Fealty

"UI, a bit courtesy please! Surely it's possible to make your point without repeatedly resorting to the term bigot or bigotry? It's both lazy, and decidedly uncivil."

Uncivil? Me? I suggest you remove the blinkers and read what I've been putting up with from our friend John from East Belfast. In case you missed it, here it is:

"United Irelander

When I try to put a face to the prick that makes the slap deserving posts that you do Barry McElduff springs to mind. Is it you ?"

I bet at school you were a tell tale - hopping on one leg shouting teacher teacher those bad boys are annoying me.

You really are a prick in the truest sense of that insult - do your friends ever tell you so.

Stop being such a cry baby.

In terms of you I play the man not the ball because you are not playing with a ball.

Thse comments are deemed 'civil' and 'playing the ball' are they? Pathetic that you single me out.

That's a Yellow for you and JEB!

Hold on. Yellow for me? I've had enough of this thread if I am to be blamed for simply calling a spade a spade.

What a farcical turn of events when I am berated for calling people who boo an anthem 'bigots' and then to add insult to injury, I get accused of being 'uncivil' when I felt my response to John's vulgar mouth was quite civil!

Keep your yellow. On this matter, I'm giving you the red!

Neil

Where are you ?

Can you get your hands on those two "Kop tickets" again and answer my 9.17 please ?

Mick

I apologise if I have offended your site but I will have to take my punishment as I could not "hand on heart" withdraw any comment about Mr United Irelander.

Regarding Neil can you please check his http address or something to verify that in your opinion his 8.58 was at least possible to be genuine ?

John and UI, the problem is that when it gets personal it has a debilitating effect on the whole discussion. I'm not asking either of you to disown your words or strong feelings. Just to desist from further ad hominem attacks.

UI, as someone pointed out recently I am not infallable! And you sir, are long enough here to know the score. You make your argument strong and hard and leave the personal stuff out.

Enough said. Thank you and good night!

I wouldn't think so. The gentleman in question has posted 11 times on the two football threads under 11 different names. All now removed.

Mick

Absolutely incredible that this kind of false posting could go on.

I assume UI et al can now realise that a lot of what has been said about the NI fans was downright lies!

Mick you should have