... and some of them consider forgiving people who are not sorry is immoral and whilst hating the activities and the lact of repentance of the terrorists and their apoligists would aspouse the principle "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Families are still suffering from the hands of the terrorists, how will the daughter of the young man murdered a couple of weeks ago by the uvf, cope growing up without her father.

We need to see an end to all murders, from all groups.

Take all the guns off the streets.

Can I recommend to all reads if they haven't already seen it, "Lost Lives"

Yet another loyalist murder last night.

Another name to the next revised edition of 'Lost Lives'

I was thinking long the same lines that a "lost lives" book is like our phone directory at work - already out of date when it is compiled.

Lost Lives is utterly chilling. My wife hates it in the house and accuses me of morbid fascination when, as I often do, I reach for it. Sometimes, living in a very nice rural part of Southern England, thanks, it's the only way I can reconnect myself to those alien times, living near the Fermanagh border when it did seem we were on the dark side of the edge of the Union, forgoten and almost abandoned to the IRA. Why do I need to be reminded? Beacause of something dark and visceral and tribal inside me which preversely longs for a time even a dangerous time shorn of ambiguity and moral fudge. When we were up against it and they were the bad guys and we had only ourselves to rely on. As bad as it got, I think I emerged from that community stronger and better.

BogExile:
In terms of freezing an atmosphere and a time, another book "Political Murder" captures the atmosphere of 71-72 and all of the potential that there was for developments different from those which actually materialised.
Although it was mistaken in some assumptions, it analyses a relatively small no. of lkillings in a way which presaged "Lost Lives" - albeit that Martin Dillon and Denis Lehane couldnt have countenanced that there would be so many more lives to be lost...we all should hope that such books stand as historical documents of a different age from that in which we aspire to live.

'we all should hope that such books stand as historical documents of a different age from that in which we aspire to live.'

Thanks for the recommendation, Jo. I think the point that i was trying to make, and i know it's extremely contentions is that I actually miss something about that awful time, the solidarity, the certainty. I once spoke to a Palestinian in Belfast and he said that I was a 'settler on the west bank' referring not to the River Jordan, but the Bann. In a sense he was right, there's something bizzarely exhilarating about living on the frontier, even one as murderously twisted as ours. Somehow, I miss that and I'm sure I'm not the only Unionist who does. I'm certainly not advocating a return to sectarian murder, I'm just reflecting this as part of the legacy of the troubles in an increasingly atomised society. Or to put it another way, will every Republican in South Armagh celebrate the removal of the watch towers? Or will some inner voice register regret that part of their moral and phyisical landscape is being removed.

BogExile

"Or will some inner voice register regret that part of their moral and phyisical landscape is being removed"...forgive me but....is this a joke ?

Not a joke Fish, but perhaps clumsily put. I'm just reflecting on how the physical and mental architecture of the troubles has made its mark on us and not necessarily in a straightforward or even healthy way.

Yes I do think that people have ambiguous reactions to the changing landscape of post-conflict Ireland where the old certainties are pulled down. I'm not expecting Gerry Kelly to be moist eyed at the removal of Forkhill base but on a more subtle level, the removal of representations of our own dirty local war might not be as straightforward as is usually assumed. Or maybe I'm drunk.

BogExile

....well, one of course was keen to avoid accusations of man rather than ball.....perhaps you can see two balls ?

Charmingly put - pull up that bar stool and we'll have a chat. In the meantime:

DOON

When God painted Ireland
He used watercolours
Smudging the dun, sodden landscape
With occasional sunshine
This wringing wet romance
Is here at Doon
Splashing through the quiet graveyards
With their screaming dead suffocated
With the rank soil of politics
The rivers run through
Our shining, murderous hillocks
Where soldiers once drank
Washing the clay clean to Enniskillen
It's a pity spilled blood
Can't be got rid of as quickly.

A more lyrical response, perhaps.

B-E:
I think I can identify with this form of "nostalgia" for the Troubles, however paradoxical it seems to put it into print in that way!

A similar interest tends to grip when looing back at my video collection of Counterpoint/Spotlight or archive documentary footage of the 70s/80s.
It is perhaps mixed up inextricably with longing for a lost youth which might (who knows?) have taken different and more positive forms had there not been such a horrific backdrop.

Ah, Spotlight and counterpane...the production values, the wobbly sets, a slim david Dunseith - all sadly lost...