'It is aimed at undermining republican confidence in the peace process.'

awww, poor wee Republicans. My heart bleeds.

I thought Jim Gibney was supposed to be 'close to the thinking' of Gerry Adams - I'd be very worried if he was.

Gibney's articles have proved to be a massive disappointment - he's just too close to the party to ever say anything much more than what you could get from a fist-full of press releases.
This one is typical - nothing more than a rehase of this week's Shinner statements, and very badly put together at that. Where's the meat Jim? Where's the meat?

Irrespective of the view he is putting forward, this guy is a terrible writer. It's all just staccato-like one-liners.
More like the rough minutes taken at a meeting to be written up later than a column.
Very disappointing for he is by no means a bit-player.

"More like the rough minutes taken at a meeting to be written up later than a column"

You could be right!

Not great, but better than Emerson's poorly written mess which appears weekly within the same paper.

..."And still there is no clear answer as to why he over anyone else was lifted after the rioting in Ardoyne".

Indeed - they should ALL have been lifted!

Was disappointed slugger did not run a thread on Gibney's article last week, which proved a more interesting talking point among many readers I know.

It dealt with small town 'Ulster' and the pervasive intimidation of catholics in villages like Stoneyford.

Perhaps Mick could pick it up as a thread?

I see the cavalry has arrived.
As mentioned above, regardless of the points Gibney is making, his style is appalling - like the spluttering of an angry old man. Surely SF can find someone better - or have Gibney's articles ghost written, as is common with most of statements put out by candidates in most parties.

Have to agree with most posters - this guy's writing style is shocking. Frankly, his waffling about how the Ardoyne has been traumatised over the years, how 'nobody likes us' etc. etc. sounds to me remarkably similar to the tripe that was trotted out by the usual suspects to justify the antics of the untermenschen of Glenbryn during the Holy Cross 'protest'. If this eejit IS close to the thinking of Gerry Adams then we're all fucked.

Bored

This guy is supposed to form the thinking of Adams et al.

Jacko - christ, if so then it's no wonder that the shinners have been shooting themselves (metaphorically of course) in the balls so often with McCartney, Northern Bank etc.etc.

In fairness a Jim Gibney article can hardly be viewed as a precis of Gerry's latest briefing papers - it's more like a precis of what Gerry wants the faithful to think after reading his briefing papers. ('Bullet points', anyone?)

Too bad Gibney can't make more entertaining use of his source material, that's all.

Sounds to me that his arrest was a bit more than just 'an act of provocation'

The real reason for his arrest

If being "up to his neck" in criminality and extortion rackets is inded the basis of this and one would trust there is material evidence to support this proposition, then Kelly should face trial. One wonders whether he was being tracked any more stongly than any other republicans or loyalists or 'ODC's in this connection, it is of course possible that he was 'given up' by SF for political reasons or that it was a sop to unionism undertaken by the NIO. If, and at this stage it must be if, he was so involved then the fact that he's off the streets is to be welcomed. One would like to think he won't be the last.

Who does Gibney reckons is doing the “provoking” and why??? A Provo defending another Provo – big news. I thought PSF was supposed to be moving to ditch PIRA? If so, they need to kick the habit of continually defending and supporting them.

Wichser

If being "up to his neck" in criminality and extortion rackets is inded the basis of this and one would trust there is material evidence to support this proposition, then Kelly should face trial.

Maybe there’s not enough evidence (the usual story)? In the meantime, I don’t think he needs to be tried – he’s already been convicted and was merely out on licence.

If, and at this stage it must be if, he was so involved then the fact that he's off the streets is to be welcomed. One would like to think he won't be the last.

One lives in hope.

Strange that in the middle of a loyalist feud after known UDA commanders have been in and out of Belfast court like yoyos the government jails kelly....

Strange that isn`t it?

No Dick, unfortunately it isn't strange at all.

Dick Doggins

Not necessarily, it depends on the evidence, if there is any, and its 'stickability', it's hard to escape the suspicion that there is a political element to it though. I'm not sufficiently au fait with the terms of the licencing under the prisoner release programme to know whether normal rules of evidence apply, if it doesn't and the jailing of Kelly is based in effect purely on police hearsay then it's astonishing he is being singled out while, as you say, any number of robbing, drug-dealing, racketeering, smuggling, knee-capping chav toerags walk free with their criminal chins held high and permanent one-fingered salutes firmly visible to the law-abididng public and the cops and courts.

Wichser posted

"If being "up to his neck" in criminality and extortion rackets is inded the basis of this and one would trust there is material evidence to support this proposition, then Kelly should face trial."

Willowfield replied,
Maybe there’s not enough evidence (the usual story)? In the meantime, I don’t think he needs to be tried – he’s already been convicted and was merely out on licence.

If, and at this stage it must be if, he was so involved then the fact that he's off the streets is to be welcomed. One would like to think he won't be the last. One lives in hope.

Posted by: willowfield

willowfield,

So we are back to [unofficial] internment without trial, it seems no one at the NI office has learnt a dam thing from the past. Lock troublesome republicans away without charge, and the problem goes into jail with them, it does not disappear into the aether, un-believable.

Mick

So we are back to [unofficial] internment without trial

How's that, Mick? As I said above, Kelly has already been tried and convicted.

Lock troublesome republicans away without charge, and the problem goes into jail with them, it does not disappear into the aether, un-believable.

"Republican" or "loyalist", Sean Kelly or Johnny Adair, if you breach your early release conditions, you go back in jail. That was the deal they signed up to. Boo hoo if you're a bad boy.

If we must reduce this to a sectarian headcount, that count is 9 loyalists and 2 republicans re-arrested under licence so far.

Mick H., I'm disappointed in you. "Internment" - that's ridiculous. Kelly is in custody pending a parole hearing with the sectence review board. Standard practice - and all part of the agreement. The prisoner release programme was the hardest part of the agreement for most people to stomach. Are you telling me that any use of even its most basic safeguard is now to be equated with internment?

Why then has a certain very prominent North Belfast UFF commander alledgely on hoilday at the moment, who was caught recently with a gun in his car...why has he not been returned to prison?

Very curious....

God knows - but when he is, I'll not be calling it 'internment'. The special-pleading of various 'republican' apologists here over the re-arrest of a sectarian mass murderer is sadly telling.

Dick Doggins

"who was caught recently with a gun in his car...why has he not been returned to prison?"

If you could at least get a basic grasp of the facts it might help your case.

The person I assume you are referring to is Andre Shoukri. "Recently" was in fact 2003. He was convicted and served a prison sentence for the crime you mention. As regards activities post release, he has not been returned to jail as he is NOT out on licence.

Fair-deal
Don`t usually reply but in your case I`ll make an exception.....
The person I`m referring is not the person you have mentioned, and he is out on license....please be more factual...it really helps...before trying to instil pettiness in to the debate...

Who is it then?

Willowfield,

Come on, we both could probably name a good few former prisoners who have returned to the paramilitaries, both loyalist and republican, why single out Sean Kelly if this was the reason his was called back, although we were first told it was because he was directing rioting, which most new to be crap? Your comparison with John Adair does not hold up, as he returned himself to jail via his own big mouth. Whilst Mr Kelly's presence on the green line in Ardoyne may have been a mistake, he obviously thought he was one of the few Republicans the youngsters protesting would listen to these days. In any case he was not the only person there on license on either side of the barrade, so why single out him. Peg and hat springs to mind.

The fact is in a society like the north were rumors run riot, it is imperative on the Secretary of State to explain his reasons for returning such a high profile republican to jail. It is just not good enough to do the deed and await the decision of the parole board or its equivalent. The fact this latest rumour about Kelly being the PIRA commander in the Short Strand has been spoon fed to the BT, make it more than probable Mr Hain was bounced into returning Kelly to prison and now is attempting to justify his stupid act by leaking to the media.

Something rotten is going down here, for what happens when PIRA stands down, does Hain then release Kelly, for that is the logic of the current argument, or is Kelly to pay a more higher penalty than others who were engaged in this wretched war and if so why? The man who organized Bloody Friday dines in the White House and Downing Street, whilst a foot soldier returns to jail. As I said something rotten here. If there is to be equality lets have it for all.

Mick, we were first told Kelly had been re-arrested for rioting by the DUP - who thought their complaints about him had borne fruit, until the PSNI and the NIO corrected them.

"Whilst Mr Kelly's presence on the green line in Ardoyne may have been a mistake, he obviously thought he was one of the few Republicans the youngsters protesting would listen to these days."

Hmm..."I murdered a roomful of Prods, so I know you'll respect what I have to say, kids"...

Mike,

The Shankill bombing was tragic, awful event and one of many through-out our conflict. However it is clear that the attack carried out by IRA on that day was not designed to target innocent protestant civilians, although that is who died in the explosion. The bomb exploded prematurely killing one of the IRA men involved Sean Begley and seriously injuring the other Sean Kelly, consequently this meant the detonation also killed the many civilians who were still present at the location. I am not trying to justify this attack just present the facts as I see it.

As I see it the only people who were 'accidentally' caught up in the blast were Kelly and Begley - they didn't intend to be around when their bomb exploded. They intended to give themselves just enough time to get out of the shop. The innocent custmoers in the shop were another matter. Unless you're suggesting they were about to say "right everybody, move along please, let's file out of the shop, we're from the IRA, we've got a bomb and we're trying to kill the people upstairs"?

Seems to me that this shows that at best, for the republican movement innocent Protestant lives were totally expendable, inconseqential, not worth a thing.

Mick Hall

Come on, we both could probably name a good few former prisoners who have returned to the paramilitaries, both loyalist and republican

Maybe you could, I’m glad to say I’m not sufficiently au fait with them to know. If, however, what you say is true, that is an argument for MORE people being returned to jail, not for Kelly to be allowed to stay out.

why single out Sean Kelly if this was the reason his was called back, although we were first told it was because he was directing rioting, which most new to be crap?

I’ve no idea. I suspect the reasons will be put to him and his solicitor in due course. Due process, you know?

Your comparison with John Adair does not hold up, as he returned himself to jail via his own big mouth.

Johnny Adair was just a name. Someone above said 9 loyalists have been returned to jail – substitute one of those for Adair if you prefer. The point remains.

Whilst Mr Kelly's presence on the green line in Ardoyne may have been a mistake, he obviously thought he was one of the few Republicans the youngsters protesting would listen to these days. In any case he was not the only person there on license on either side of the barrade, so why single out him. Peg and hat springs to mind.

If Kelly was doing nothing wrong, he’ll be able to put his case to whatever board it is he answers to. If early-releasers were breaching their early release conditions then they too should be scooped and thrown in jail.

The fact is in a society like the north were rumors run riot, it is imperative on the Secretary of State to explain his reasons for returning such a high profile republican to jail. It is just not good enough to do the deed and await the decision of the parole board or its equivalent.

I believe everyone is equal before the law. “High profile republicans” are no exception.

The fact this latest rumour about Kelly being the PIRA commander in the Short Strand has been spoon fed to the BT, make it more than probable Mr Hain was bounced into returning Kelly to prison and now is attempting to justify his stupid act by leaking to the media.

Whatever, Mick, whatever. You sound like a Provo spin doctor. If Kelly is innocent he will be released. If he is guilty he’ll stay in jail. That’s as it should be.

Something rotten is going down here, for what happens when PIRA stands down, does Hain then release Kelly, for that is the logic of the current argument, or is Kelly to pay a more higher penalty than others who were engaged in this wretched war and if so why?

The PIRA “ceasefire” is supposedly still in place, and recognised as such by the Government, and Kelly was still able to be returned to jail. So I don’t see how any supposed “standing down” of the PIRA would alter the situation.

The man who organized Bloody Friday dines in the White House and Downing Street, whilst a foot soldier returns to jail. As I said something rotten here. If there is to be equality lets have it for all.

It would be nice to see Adams behind bars, and you are right to be cynical about his ongoing freedom. But just because it is politically expedient to wine and dine Adams doesn’t mean that ALL terrorists should avoid justice. Your point is an argument for arresting Adams, not for allowing other criminals to evade justice.

PS. I take it you’re retracting your irresponsible comments about “internment”.

JD

The bomb exploded prematurely killing one of the IRA men involved Sean Begley and seriously injuring the other Sean Kelly, consequently this meant the detonation also killed the many civilians who were still present at the location.

The supposed targets - loyalist terrorists - and the perpetrators of the crime - nationalist terrorists - were also civilians.

Mike,
Only Sean Kelly knows at what time the bomb was set to detonate and what their plan, if they had one, was to clear the building of civilians before it detonated. Possibly the fact that two masked individuals had run into the fishshop and placed a bag on the counter may have led to a very quick exit by all those people in the shop, we will never now.

But if, as you suggest, their was no plan or the view was that those people were expendable then, yes, that would have been totally reprehensable and a breach of all republican principles.

Did Sean Kelly break his conditions of release? Yes or No? Why is Sinn Fein selling IRA stuff on their website? Why does the Orange Order walk behind UDA bands?
I think it is time we stop talking in terms of Catholic justice and Protestant justice and redefine moral justice.

Dick Doggins

Who is this mysterious loyalist then?

JD -

"Only Sean Kelly knows at what time the bomb was set to detonate and what their plan, if they had one, was to clear the building of civilians before it detonated."

From what I remember of what was said during Kelly's trial, the timer was set for eleven cseconds. Enough time to allow Kelly and Begley to walk out, then escape into the background as the bomb went off. But it exploded after two seconds.

"Possibly the fact that two masked individuals had run into the fishshop and placed a bag on the counter may have led to a very quick exit by all those people in the shop, we will never now."

I don't think they were masked. Kelly was only identified as a bomber in hospital - certainly those who resuced him had no suspicions.

"But if, as you suggest, their was no plan or the view was that those people were expendable then, yes, that would have been totally reprehensable and a breach of all republican principles."

At the risk of straying off topic, this 'breach of republican principles' didn't prevent another Shankill bomber, Bayardo Bar killer Bik McFarlane, who murdered five innocent Protestants, from becoming 'OC' of IRA prisoners in the Maze or being to this day a close associate of Gerry Adams and 'republican commentator'.