How does he know that

Not sure...but common sense would have been suffice!

I have my suspicions that thon big Labrador down our street is passing on info.

We were promised forensic evidence. This is a bit of a comedown. Can we take it that Orde is of the view that the IRA have no other sources of sterling other than the northern bank job and therefore even if there is no actual forensic evidence it couldn't be from anywhere else.

That is assuming it's IRA money and there appears to be no evidence for that either.

Just curious, if they are sure the Cork money came from the raid why aren't the Gardaí releasing this info? Or did they already but I was asleep again?

Orde believes the Cork money includes some of the Northern withdrawl because Conroy believes it. Conroy believes it because Orde believes it. That's enough to satisfy most partial commentators. Who needs evidence?

45 PSNI Detectives working 8 hours a day for the past 154 days equals 55,440 Detective hours spent on the Northern Bank.

If it has taken all this effort to "convince" Hugh Orde that some of the Cork money came from the Northern thats a shocking waste of resources.

I'm actually tempted to paraphrase a movie classic, "Evidence, Evidence, we don't want your stinking evidence around here!"

PS, Anyone know how much a PSNI Detective would be getting an hour?

And so the flooding of the zone begins......

Of course the money was from the northern bank anyone who believes differently is living in cloud cuckoo land...

Maca,

The Guards did - the week after the raids. And the Taoiseach stated that he took them at their word at the time.

Henry -

If I'm not mistaken the PSNI have said that at least some of the Cork money was from the Northern - the implication being that more of it is of uncertain provenance - may have come for elsewhere, but from what I've heard, I doubt it.

And your assumption that it is IRA money seems reasonably safe considering it was uncovered as part of an operation against IRA financing. That is not to say that there weren't a few other bees also caught in the honey pot.

Who promised forensic evidence? It would be a bit unorthox to produce it outside a court and how would it be verified?

"Evidence, Evidence, we don't want your stinking evidence around here!"

DT - surely the only people who don't want evidence to come to light is those that committed the robbery? Except in Republicanland where everything is all upsidedowny.... and people are THROWING evidence at two the police forces but they don't want it.

Anyway - we've been here before - its all a big conspiracy and there is no link between millions in sterling notes being stolen from a bank in Belfast and millions in sterling turning up all over the Republic in the hands of republicans shortly after.

You are all barking.

You don't need evidence to destroy the peace process and you don't need evidence to convict republicans.

Look at the histiry of those still at the heart of the PSNI - none of them ever thought that evidence was a requirement - so why should Orde (who looks Paul Whitehouse - and is almost as funny).

Ringo
"The Guards did - the week after the raids. And the Taoiseach stated that he took them at their word at the time."

I remember that, but did they have the evidence? If they had the evidence and knew for sure does it then make sense that the PSNI would still be coming out with this now, repeating what should be already accepted fact? That's where i'm confused.

Ringo

And your assumption that it is IRA money seems reasonably safe considering it was uncovered as part of an operation against IRA financing. That is not to say that there weren't a few other bees also caught in the honey pot.

Only one bee has been charged and the charge is membership of the RealIRA.

Who promised forensic evidence? It would be a bit unorthox to produce it outside a court and how would it be verified?

I'm a trusting soul. If Orde said he was convinced by the forensic evidence or that the foresic evidence showed a link I'd be happy enough to wait for the a trial to get the details.

Ringo, surely you are not suggesting there might be a big conspiracy? The Guards would never be involved in anything like that and as for the PSNI and British intelligence, they would never dirty their hands in such murky waters.

Unless of course we enter the real world, where the recent revelations contained in the Morris Tribunal, the involvement of FRU, Special Branch et al in organising, arming and directing death squads, the multiple miscarriages of justice throughout this island and in England and the absence of WMDs in Iraq all suggest otherwise. Or did these only happen in Republicanland?

I'm a trusting soul.

Excellent! ;)

maca -

I remember that, but did they have the evidence?

You mean the millions in cash that they had under surveillance? From what I understand the Garda surveillance operation against IRA moneylaundering predated the Bank job, so they would have been well aware of where the money came from. The PSNI didn't have this fall back - all they had was the notes.

There is no political pressure from their government masters on either Hugh Orde or Noel Conroy or either force to go out on a limb regarding republican involvement - the case has been made and accepted by everyone except republicans, who are accused. The only pressure is to bring this to court and get some convictions under the law of the land, not as a component of NI politiking.

So why would the PSNI do it at this stage if they weren't sure? If they were going to bluff, surely the time to do it was back when the guards called it? Wouldn't it have been easier to say nothing?

Neither the gardaí nor the PSNI are going to make specific forensic evidence public ahead of court proceedings, especially as it may implicate individuals and, in that case, would jeopardise a safe conviction. Any newspaper or broadcaster which reported such evidence may also be liable to contempt of court proceedings.

To those who question why only one person has been charged with an offence, the DPP in Ireland often takes many months to bring charges for serious offences. Murder cases have been known to take two years to come to court. The money-laundering allegations are extremely complicated, involving international links, and it should be no surprise that the investigation will take some time.

The one charge that has been made of membership of the (Real) IRA was straightforward and, frankly, easy to bring on the "word of a senior garda" rule.

I am not rushing to judgment, but neither should those who claim there is "no evidence". The gardaí and PSNI have bags (literally) of potential evidence, and are following lines of enquiry through banks, businesses, and foreign governments. That takes time.

DT -

With that litany of abuses under their belts, you'd assume that between them, the two forces of evil would have made a better job of fabricating evidence against inhabitants of Republicanland.

Why haven't they just made up foresic evidence, and pinned it on a few of the usual suspects? Maybe McDowell was agreeing to releasing the killers of Det. McCabe so they'd be free when the robbery was committed and then rearresting them for robbing the Northern - would have been a gem of a stitch up. Pity Paisley unwittingly foiled it. Though maybe it was a double bluff because he was surely in on it too, via Ulster Resistance.

If this was a stitch-up, even the boys in Donegal could have done it better. You're very paranoid, aren't you?

"Why haven't they just made up foresic evidence, and pinned it on a few of the usual suspects?"

They don't need to. You are aready convinced without any evidence at all, dodgy or otherwise.

I wonder how many Guards named in the Morris reports have been transferred to Cork? Noel Conroy was very happy with their investigartion into the Barren "murder", no doubt nothing has happened in Cork which could have fallen below that exacting standard.

To all those who are happy to accept the word of two heads of police I ask the following simple question - would you accept their word if they stated that all IRA guns and bombs were decommissioned?

Ringo, you may well be inclined to believe the word of Hugh Orde or his intelligence buddies and that is your right.

Others, in light of the "litany of abuses" conducted by these people and their organisations might take the not unreasonable approach that their word, belief or convictions need to be backed up by more than their opinions.

Having clearly demonstrated their ability and willingness to lie in the past, whats to say they wouldn't do it again?

would you accept their word if they stated that all IRA guns and bombs were decommissioned?

Cinnte!

Snapper.

I for one would be more than happy to accept the word of the two police chiefs regarding the weaponry of the IRA.

TAFKABO,

Can I therefore assume that the word of two police chiefs has more integrity than that of General John De Chastalain, and two agreed religious ministers?

Snapper - de Chastalain lost credibility when he was shown to have been nobbled - and the Ministers could only say what they had seen destroyed - which is very different from being able to say that the IRA had decommissioned ALL their weapons - the ministers wouldn't have access to the intelligence sources of the police chiefs.

Snapper

would you accept their word if they stated that all IRA guns and bombs were decommissioned?

I'd accept the IRA's word and those who accept the word of Police Chiefs would, I assume accept, that.

And we'd all be happy.

Davros,

Thats all fine and dandy - so please explain (if this applies to your thinking) how a series of photographs would resolve the whole issue of decommissioning? Whilst I might be digressing, this post is dealing with trust and IMO Unionism has been only too happy to accept someone's word on one occasion whilst insisting on concrete evidence the next.

By the way - it's great to be back from exile!

Tests on cash to confirm link to bank raid

RTÉ News understands that tests on the £60,000 seized at a house at Douglas Co Cork on Wednesday night will confirm that it too came from the Northern Bank raid.

Forensic tests are continuing at Garda Headquarters in Dublin on the £2.3 million seized at the home of Businessman Ted Cunningham as well as the money seized in Douglas in Cork.

From the outset gardaí believed that the £60,000 may have been part of the money taken in December's raid on the headquarters of the Northern Bank in Belfast.

Confirmation of that fact is now expected within days and that confirmation will bring huge political repercussions.

The story is dated 19 February 2005

How many days I wonder

Please explain (if this applies to your thinking) how a series of photographs would resolve the whole issue of decommissioning?

That would be an ecumenical matter!LOL

To be serious - I'll let one of our DUP fans explain their thinking on that one mate. For myself, I won't be needing pictures to accept that we have had a real advance in the peace process.

Snapper

not wanting to answer Davros' question for him but . . .

Unionists trust the PSNI. Unionists don't trust Sinn Fein/IRA. I would imagine that's all there is to it.

Davros - that's fine by me.

Henry

That is an irrelevant news report.A journalist got his timescale out of kilter, it means absolutely nothing.

Henry - your post doesn't reflect badly on the coppers, merely on the RTE reporting team.

Cheers Snapper :)

You are aready convinced without any evidence at all, dodgy or otherwise.

eh? Is a £2.3m dustbin not evidence? Or the contents of a garden fire (granted the monetary value of the fire was rapidly decreasing when the guards arrived). Or generous individuals wandering in off the street to make six figure donations of a foreign currency to their local Garda HQ not evidence?

Maybe not the sort of evidence you'd like - which I suspect would be evidence pointing in any direction away from republicans. Now that is the sort of evidence I am more than willing to accept has been completely absent.

To all those who are happy to accept the word of two heads of police I ask the following simple question - would you accept their word if they stated that all IRA guns and bombs were decommissioned?

No bother at all...

Henry -

So RTE promised you forensic evidence. You must feel very let down by Inspecteur Charles Oiseau and the rest of the forensic team in Montrose.

Come on now lads. RTE didn't pull the story out of their arses. They were reporting what they were told by the cops and you know it.

Lads, was it bad RTÉ reporting or was it bad information from the Gardaí? How do you know, i'm just curious. Where do RTÉ get their info, from the Gardaí or do they make it up?

They were reporting what they were told by the cops and you know it.

as you and others have so stridently demanded in the past - where's your proof ? ;)

Dav
Conversely where's the proof that it was bad journalism? It may well have been bad info from the Gaedaí. I think the point is that none of us know for sure, yet some people seem pretty convinced of the 'facts' ;)

Come on now lads. RTE didn't pull the story out of their arses. They were reporting what they were told by the cops and you know it.

Are we to rely on common sense in the absence of evidence while you are stubbornly refusing to do so? Well, fair enough - of course they got the story from the Guards.

Your point was that we'ed been promised 'forensic evidence in days'. But there is a world of a difference between information provided to Charlie Bird by unnamed Garda sources and Noel Conroy's press conference where he made no such promise. Is there anything the Guards have said on the record on this that you can challenge?

And moire to the point, is there anything to indicate that the guards didn't have that forensic evidence in days? Other than the fact that it hasn't, as normal, been made public?

Conversely where's the proof that it was bad journalism? It may well have been bad info from the Gaedaí.

1) Maca, I was teasing our Henry :) How often have we heard "where's the proof? " from his side of the fence ? LOL

2) I would suggest that the proof of bad journalism is in the article - if they had said something along the lines of "Our sources within the Gardai say that the police are expecting confirmation within days " then their posteriors would have been covered, the failure of confirmation within a few days reflecting on their sources rather than the author/s .... whereas as worded the reporter merely says that confirmation is expected . Expected by whom ? By Him or her ? By the Editorial team ? By the Coppers? It's open to all sorts of interpretations .

Poor Orde, reduce now to the role of soothsayer or has he been convinced by tea leaves or maybe it's in the stars. Even now the Met job is disappearing over the horizon.

The fact of the matter is the Gardai, the PSNI and Bertie Ahern stated that forensic tests on the Cork money would link it to the Northern raid and that the evidence would be available within days.
As of yet there has been absolutely nothing. Just the lame duck journoes repeating verbatim what they hear in some drinking den from alleged sources.

The only money so far recovered, that can be traced to the Northern raid was recovered from a heavily fortified PSNI sports complex in Sth Belfast, but then again apologists for the PSNI tend to forget that.

The fact of the matter is the Gardai, the PSNI and Bertie Ahern stated that forensic tests on the Cork money would link it to the Northern raid and that the evidence would be available within days.

Where Pat?

And available to whom?

Just the lame duck shinners repeating verbatim what they hear in some party meeting from alleged community peace negotiation policy documentation verification specialist activist, a chara. ;)

Ringo,

tryany media outlet after the raids in Cork, every one of them carried the story. But I doubt you will do a bit of spade work
But then again just another lame duck blogger hanging on every rumour and whisper in order to confirm their worst fantasies, no surprise. Don't woory there should be another IRa exclusive due any day now and that will keep you contented for a while.

Pat -

Now I know that what comes out of republican Daily Ireland/Gerry/IRA intelligence is to all intents and purposes all the one, but have we reached a point now where the media/Taosieach/Gardai are interchangable words?

Do a bit of digging yourself and show me where either the taoiseach or the Gardai stated that they would make forensic evidence available within days. Sure you spent the short winter days lambasting the media here for their lazy journalism regarding the investigation, and now you feel cheated by them? Hard to believe.

Any reason to believe the guards haven't got that evidence you so desperately crave? Other than its normal absence from the public domain?

Ringo,

you should really cast your mind back to the firestorm that erupted around the time of the Cork raids and how politicians, the media and bloggers to this site lost the run of themselves.

The fact of the matter is both Bertie Ahern and Michael Mc Dowell both stated that the money found in Cork would be forensically linked to the Northern job within days. Now, not ones to walk by a camera without giving a quote, one wonders why these two people would keep such information to themselves, other than the fact that no forensic link can be established.

Fact is no link has been established other than a large number of Northern notes were stolen from a bank and a cache of notes was found at the home of a financier.
Any reading of the Orde comments bears out the fact that he is going on a hunch rather than anything that would constitute evidence. A lesson to all would be to keep a clear head when all around seem to be running with the hounds.

Sure you've still got the Mc Cartney case to chew on.

The fact of the matter is both Bertie Ahern and Michael Mc Dowell both stated that the money found in Cork would be forensically linked to the Northern job within days

Where?

one wonders why these two people would keep such information to themselves

because it would prejudice a trial? PD's have learned their lesson regarding comments about pending court cases after Mary got the Emperor off the hook.

Northern notes were stolen from a bank and a cache of notes was found at the home of a financier.

Little shimmy there Pat- the money linked to the Northern by the media was the 60g's the boys at the station had. Maybe it was just because of all the tales we had heard of 'you take a dirty 60k and give us back a clean 50k' that were going around before the raids that 'sources' made the connection. You're even further off the mark again saying the money in the bin was what they were talking about.

Northern notes were stolen from a bank and a cache of notes was found at the home of a financier... as a result of an investigation into IRA moneylaundering.

Can't believe you're still dragging the arse out of this one.

maybe Bertie and the''republican ''party he leads could use the notes ,if the 26 counties are brought back into the commonwealth,which the annorak man is on record as saying he doesnt have a problem with .As I recall aprox 5m euros worth was recovered in raids,that could be used to cover berties make up bill and nail manacures for almost a weekend