"Even if she were not so clever, **likeable and downright sexy**, any potential UUP leader with a Westminster seat must have a distinct advantage."..

yeah!
he would know

It is very possible to find somebody sexy without being attracted to them. Applies to same sex as well.

Where is Tom Elliott's odds? 'Only Elliott can win'!

mm...but maybe Reg Empy is even sexier.

'Lord Maginnis (10-1)

For many unionists, Ken is one of the real heroes of the Troubles'

Could someone please tell me how?
Isn't it Ken we have to thank for positive discrimination against his own communtiy in PSNI recruitment?

"Isn't it Ken we have to thank for positive discrimination against his own communtiy in PSNI recruitment?"

It is to be admired that unionists elected a politician that put a representative police force before the narrow interests of his ethnic group. This is something for unionists to feel proud about.

Lady Sylvia's desire to take us off to liberal la la land where all unionists listen to the pontification of Trevor Ringland and read the Irish News surely means that she hasn't a hope.

But then again this is the Ulster Unionist Party.

Hello...it's me Dessertspoon....sorry to interupt the political discourse but I just wanted to invite you to take part in the Slugger referendum on the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement.

Just click here to vote. The question is "Do you feel the Good Friday Agreement is still relevant and should be implemented in its entirety?" as suggested by JL Pagano.

Steve 48 - what is wrong with the fact that Sylvia Hermon etc may read the Irish News ...? If more people nationalists/republicans read the Newsletter and vice versa then we might understand each other a bit better - it doesn't mean you have 'gone native'.....

DUP "afraid" of Taylor! What a joke!

A word to the wise, Steven - the reason why your erstwhile employer never lost an election is because he shat himself in 2001 and ran off to the House of Lords before Iris could defeat him in Strangford.

"The fact that the UUP in North Down in the local elections received just 22% to the DUP's 33% demonstrates what a feat it was to pull together a moderate coalition and retain the Gold Coast"

The North Down result is not a shining example for rebuilding the UUP.
1. This coalition building only works at Westminster and it is a negative coalition - We all dislike the DUP more than we dislike one another.
2. The 'success' didn't work in the assembly or council elections so it is not a long-term strategy for the regeneration of the UUP at all levels.
3. North Down also has a history of political difference from the rest of NI

"The UUP misses his electoral pull, nevertheless. The next leader's urgent job is to win back the voters Donaldson took with him to the DUP 18 months ago. There is a hill to climb."

King also misses the contradiction in highlighting North Down then lamenting the loss of the Donaldson voters. These voters did not go liberal and it takes the shine off hermon's desire for a more liberal UUP. Dual messages don't work.

'Lord Maginnis (10-1)

For many unionists, Ken is one of the real heroes of the Troubles'

Could someone please tell me how?

Indeedeo -
There are a few reasons but here are three.
Because he served in the Ulster Defence Regiment for many years, rising to the rank of Major, in a border area.
Because he survived nine IRA attempts on his life.
Because despite all of that, he also served his community with distinction as the headmaster of a primary school, and a local counciller, then defeating a Sinn Fein/H Blocks candidate to win a Westminster seat.

Maybe those reasons have something to do with it?
Or do you want to send Ken out to put his uniform back on and fight the war again for you & the rest of the DUP?

The election of the new leader, would be the only election Ken McGinness could ever win !!

David M

Well said

"Or do you want to send Ken out to put his uniform back on and fight the war again for you & the rest of the DUP?"

This type of point has popped up a few times now.

Can anyone please present evidence that the UDR was disproportionately made up of UUP members than DUP members?

PS I wouldn't go overboard about Kenneth's UDR career it wasn't without its problems.

David M,

Those who served in the UDR for years and go about trumpetting the fact to give credence to their claim to be a 'great unionist' seem to be quite prevalent in the UUP. Apparently that was one of the main reasons I should have voted for Tom Elliott- he served in the UDR and Arlene Foster didnt. Deosnt win the vote for me i'm afraid, especially saying Ken was one of the architects of the GFA which, had it not failed, would have seen the end of the RIR.

As for winning the Westminster seat from a Sinn Fein/H Block candidate, he can now be thanked for handing it straight back to them after the role he played in the 'anyone but Arlene' campaign.

Well done Ken, Ulsters hero!

the GFA which, had it not failed, would have seen the end of the RIR.

how?

Leaving aside the fact that Ken is a bumbling oaf, well-over-the-hill and a raving liberal, the suggestion that Basil McCrea would be the deputy leader in the event of Lord Drumglass ascending to the UUP throne is nothing short of ridiculous!

Indeedeo,

fair enough. We don't want to get into a "what did you do during the war daddy?" sort of climate, which is no use to anyone

Still, you asked for someone to please explain to you how he's a hero of the Troubles. That was my reply

Good to see King back in the Tele again.
Editor Ed Curran has not explained why he suddenly dropped King's weekly column - although I'm sure doing so just after King married his boyfriend has nothing to do with it. Because that would be the act of a backward old fool.

It has been argued by some political commentators that there is indeed a latent unionist constituency prepared to vote for an authentic liberal form of unionism that last exercised it's vote to accept the GFA. Shortly afterwards having done the decent thing it returned to quiet semi retired slumber.
Do unionist posters agree that this is the case? If so can this constituency be reinvigorated to the extent that it would support the type of party advocated by Sylvia Hermon?

Pat - 130,000 people voted UUP last week, even though they all must have been fully aware of the fact that the DUP was on course to wipe the board. SOMETHING is lurking out there that wants a pro-agreement unionist party badly enough to vote for a semi-pro-agreement unionist party that's clearly on its last legs, rather than an anti-agreement unionist party in the ascendent.
Then there's the 40% who didn't vote at all.

Indeed,
Who made the point that Tom Elliott should be voted for because he was in the UDR? You just making up random things again? At least Tom doesn’t describe all farmers as 'tacky'.

Should the blame of SF getting the seat again not fall on Dixon?

TU makes a good point, how would the agreement have been the end of the RIR?

Pat - The UUP's road to recovery will not happen by a narrow focus on the illusory 'Garden Centre Prod'. Yes, they came out in 1998 but they have been notorious by their absence since then.

Afterall, in terms of defending the Agreement the recent election was one of the most important since the referendum itself - If the Garden Centre Prods didnt come out to 'save dave' from electoral doom last week then they will almost certainly never come out.

Consolidating our appeal on that side of the Unionist spectrum is important but in terms of long term recovery, the UUP must re-inforce its credentials as a centre ground Unionist party.

There is no merit in lurching to the right or left. Only by being on the centre ground of Unionism can we ever hope to recover lost ground eletorally.

Recently the ideolgical grounds within Unionism have become increasingly blurred. Who speaks for Unionism in the future may even come down to who is the better organised and most slick campaigning machine.

the suggestion that Basil McCrea would be the deputy leader in the event of Lord Drumglass ascending to the UUP throne is nothing short of ridiculous!

Why?

Lots of statements going on here, but not much by the way of substance!

liberal la la land

raving liberal

It's disheartening to see that people here have taken up the GOP practice of loading the word "liberal" as a derogatory label. Regardless of the fact we're discussing conservative politicans in the first place, traditional conservatism has many of its roots in the personal and economic freedoms of liberalism.

Throwing the term around as liberally as part of bogeyman-conjuring bile isn't an indication of well-reasoned arguments.

FYU,

I see you no longer have a problem with talking to me in the absence of my name, and that is a change in stance which i welcome and appreciate.

This being the case, could you give your reply to this post you ignored on a previous thrrad:

*You said......
'Thats just what the bookies are saying, Arlene might be surprised to see how many of her voters stuck with the uup.'

I say.........
Or maybe she's been right all along.

*You said............
'I bet shes wishing she could turn back time and the same for Jeffory - he would have liked to get his grubby little hands on the UU leadership and he probably would have had a good chance.'

I say.................
I bet Arlene and jeffrey are very very happy that they did the right thing and joined the DUP.
Why would anybody want to be a member of the UUP-it'd be like being on the Titanic when it hit the bottom of the ocean. And i'm sure Jeffrey wouldnt want to be captain of the Titanic in that position!

*You said.............
2. What will you say if Arlene finishes ahead of Tom?
I will be honestly surprised and admit to DUP dominance in FST.

I say..............
(silence, still awaiting a clear unequivocal admittance of DUP dominance in FST)

*You said...............
'I doubt that there are many Orangemen that will vote for Arlene here, many men out off the Orders will give Tom their vote through Loyalty to their leader. '

I say.............
Mmmmmmmm, looks from the figures that the majority of Orangmen in the County voted for Arlene. The anger and disgust at Tom's actions amongst Orange brethren isn't going to dissapear quickly, but his political career will.

*You said...........
'I’m not denying that it Arlene will receive a lot of votes but so will Tom, just you wait and see the difference between them on Friday there may be a couple thousand between them and hopefully Tom will come out on top.'

I say...............
14056-8869=5187.

*You said...........
'The fact is that this statement reflects only one mans personal opinion, noway does it reflect the whole of what the orange order thinks. Hes abusing his position. I look forward to what he has to say on the 6th May, I wonder if he will admit to being wrong or might he just say nothing and forget he ever said it??'

I say............
Looks like Bobby was right that Arlene was the strongest unionist candidate in FST. Facts speak for themselves.

*You said.........
'Maybe the unionists here think that Tom Elliott is the best candidate which makes sense as he now would have just a big profile, after all he is a cllr and a MLA.'

I say...........
Maybe not?????

*You said..........
'It will be a bad day for FST but at least there will be one clear message to all the Arlene supporters, look at the problems they have inflicted on the FST people. Ultimately the blame will rest on Arlenes shoulders- I wouldnt like to be her on the 6th! Hopefully she will do the decent thing and leave the political scene. Doesn't mean the DUP have to, just her.'

I say..........
This, in my opinion Mark, is the highlight of the political insight you have shared with us on Sluger over the last month. Tell me this-who would you rather be today in the wake of Friday's results-Arlene or Tom? I know i'm glad that the DUP's position was vindicated. I'm glad Arlene won't be going away. One place she will be going to is Westminster in 2009. It could and should have been now had it not been for Cooper, Elliott, Sam Foster and their ilk.

*You said............
'BTW you claim that the UU vote will go down over 10,000 votes here!! You honestly think that Arlene will keep her whole 5000 and then have managed to persuade at least another 4000 voters.... I THINK NOT'

I say..........
Maybe i was too hasty in saying that last comment was the highlight of your polticial insight. This would run it close! While it may not have been 10000, it very nearly was Mr Ovens. And Arlene took all her votes and then some. Undisputable Ovens. A disasterous day for FST UUP.

You said.......
'Now heres my prediction:

Michelle Gildernew = 19,000
Tom Elliot = 13,000
Arlene Foster = 11,000
Tommy Gallagher = 8,000'

I say............
Predictions not really your forte are they?

*You said...........
'Message to Arlene:
Oh yea just to inform you (whoever you are here) that did you notice Tom had a good afternoon there. You left quite suddenly didnt you? Could you not stick all of us (btw were only 16)asking you all these sensitive questions? It must have been embarrasibg for you infont of Tom Elliot when patterson actually had to come over and tell us to back off and leave you alone! After you left Tom stayed on for about another 25 mins speaking to boys answering any questions they had, then he had a good chat with the headmaster about water rates etc. Its ovibous who the better politician was there! Notice the way you didnt get any of those sort of questions.

Hard luck Arlene!'

I say..............
I'm sure Arlene is still really feeling down about the visit to Portora - it probably was the most important event in her whole campaign.
Hard luck Arlene indeed, you must be gutted after taking 63% of the unionist vote in FST.

*You said...............
'You are greatly mistaken if you honestly think that most of the 4000+ people that voted for Foster in 2003 will again give her their vote. She is clearly way behind in the popularity ranks here in Fermanagh '

I say................
hahahahahahahahaha - i've so enjoyed doing this.

Over to you kid.......lets hear it. Staring with you admitting to DUP dominance in FST.

*hush*

Posted by: Indeed at May 8, 2005 03:19 PM

Now, when i get an answer to this i'll be more than happy to explain the GFA agreement to you.

Kind regards,

The artist formerly known as 'Indeed'

That's a great price on Sir Reg and is probably reflects the uncertainty over his standing.

If he does stand those odds will come way down and IMHO he would be favourite.

It's a few quid now

Slug

"It is to be admired that unionists elected a politician that put a representative police force before the narrow interests of his ethnic group. This is something for unionists to feel proud about."

yes it would be if this were true. It is a matter of shame that he is responsible for promoting religious discrimination. Also, if you are from an ethnic minority or have a disability and are not in the right religious pool, then you could also miss out. This is a step backwards not forwards.

FYU

Maginnis is always making service in the security an issue with candidates, if he is supporting someone who has served against someone who hasn't. It is almost as if they have no right to even stand. This used to embarrass me when I would have called myself a Maginnis supporter. I did not feel I knew him well enough to comment directly but I remember ringing UUP offices to suggest that someone have a word with him about it, because he was letting himself down and playing into the opposition's hands.

On the day of the results he was on tv again complaining about people not voting for a young man in his constituency who had served in the UDR.

I have also heard stories about UUP meetings that when he gets an unappreciative audience he turns on them and asks "how many of you have worn a uniform?".

If Tom Elliot served in the UDR then good on him, yes it is something to his personnel credit, but it is not a black mark against Arlene that she didn't.

If TE is a decent and unassuming chap and although I do not know him myself but many of Arlene supporters seem to think he is, then he must have been mortified at the way Ken used this issue.

Its this wonderful sort of argument which shows why the UUP might never well get its problems sorted out - it doesnt even know where the problems lie!!!

I (think) I posted before here that the UUP is going to splinter no-matter what the result. Should Burnside be seen to increase his influence then Hermon et al are likely to wander of into the sunset and should Hermon get elected leader (please do - if only for comedy value) then we have seen the absolute last of the 'right'-wing of the UUP with Hermon trying to become new-alliance.

One of the problems for Ulster Unionists is now that divisions have become completely embedded, factionalism is practically compulsory, and contests for power the only prize - so much so that they even forget what the original factions were, just that there should always be at least 3 openly differing camps.

As for the 'hero of the troubles' Ken Maginnis - frankly I find it more than insulting that the only thing people can refer to is the fact he served in the UDR - so did tens of thousands of real heroes of the troubles who served and were murdered for it. They were members/supporters of both the UUP and DUP and its sickening to hear Maginnis held up as if he was the sinble sole UDR man patrolling the border , only later to be joined by Tom Elliott - Tom might just about know which way round to hold the rifle!

Its clear as day that barge-pole Taylor fancies a crack at it just to have the complete set of UUP jobs under his belt. He's jumped on the right side (eventually) of most inter and intra-UUP battles to have got nearly all the jobs. Maybe if he eventually bags leader he gets a set of lead crystal brandy glasses or something. Although I'd nearly give it to him solely for his cutting adrift of all party colleagues on the election results coverage with usual pomposity as he exclaimed that he'd of course told them it was all rubbish they were peddling during the campaign only they wouldnt believe him. Shame no-one believes that rubbish now but its definately a first class impression of a rat jumping off the fast sinking good ship UUP.

Also good comedy value to have Basil McCrea as leadership material - lets just whack some first time local councillor into the job. Does no-one else realise just how low the UUP are having to look if he is being touted as a serious candidate? I dont deny that he may or may not have some ability, but I ask you, if he's only been a councillor now for a grand total of 7 days, and ran one failed campaign, does that give him the experience and qualities necessary to run the UUP? Actually, on second thoughts, this is the UUP after all.

It looks like the golden hand grenade is going to fall to old comb-over king 1979, Reggie boy. Although, with his stunning silence so far it shows that he might actually be the only one who in intelligent enough to take it on. He's so busy obviously avoiding any shreds of publicity as not to increase his chances of winnign that maybe he is the only one who realises what deep doodoo the UUP is really in.

Dont worry though - there'll be another round of UUP pseudo soulsearching coming along soon enough.

For Lady Hermon to even be touted as a Leader is a sure, but unfortunate, sign that significant elements within Ulster Unionism are determined to ensure that the Party remains disconnected from mainstream unionist voters.

North Down's distinct(alternatively we might call it weird)political tradition is being carried on in the person of Lady Hermon ... like her predecessors in the constituency she is the representative of a 'pro-union' (a much more respectable term than 'unionist') stance that glories in being removed from the convictions, values and networks of mainstream unionism elsewhere in NI.

So where would LSH lead us? Further into the electoral wilderness, further removed the mainstream unionist voter, further removed from electoral success.

The Member for North Down must surely be the leader the DUP are hoping the UUC inflicts upon a party that only two general elections ago represented majority and mainstream unionism ... as opposed to the (very) slightly warmed-up version of Alliance politics that passes for Ulster Unionism in a certain constituency.

FYU,

Mr Ovens being a fellow Portoran I can not stand back any longer and allow you to continue distorting the events at the Currenty Affairs society regarding Arlene Foster.
As you well know the only people who in anyway "attacked" Arlene were yourself and your brother, both of whom you boost are in the UUP. As regards you cornering Arlene and making her feel uncomfortable you made an absolute foul of yourself!
It really was fun watching Arlene anihilate you in an argument which you woefully lost! I almost felt slightly sorry for you as you directed random insults of mindless stupidity at Arlene only to have them thrown back at you to the laughter of fellow pupils.
Even Mr Neill staunch Trimblite was quite embarassed by your behaviour! Despite the fact that there were a large number of DUP supporters in the room we did not seek to lower our standards to gutter level by slandering Tom Elliott. If I dare say so Tom was quite annoyed by your behaviour as it gave Arlene a prime oppurtunity to show her intellectual ability on what I'm sure she will admitt to being a soft target. Ovens all you suceeded in doing with your immature behaviour was to alienate anyone who in anyway was considering supporting the UUP. And on that note I would like to thank you part in confounding the DUP as the leading voice for unionists at Portora.

P.S- Look forward to a host of DUP speakers lined up next year. Just to be fair we will be choosing them at the ratio of 9 DUP to 1 UUP.

FYU,

Mr Ovens being a fellow Portoran I can not stand back any longer and allow you to continue distorting the events at the Currenty Affairs society regarding Arlene Foster.
As you well know the only people who in anyway "attacked" Arlene were yourself and your brother, both of whom you boost are in the UUP. As regards you cornering Arlene and making her feel uncomfortable you made an absolute fool of yourself!
It really was fun watching Arlene anihilate you in an argument which you woefully lost! I almost felt slightly sorry for you as you directed random insults of mindless stupidity at Arlene only to have them thrown back at you to the laughter of fellow pupils.
Even Mr Neill staunch Trimblite was quite embarassed by your behaviour! Despite the fact that there were a large number of DUP supporters in the room we did not seek to lower our standards to gutter level by slandering Tom Elliott. If I dare say so Tom was quite annoyed by your behaviour as it gave Arlene a prime oppurtunity to show her intellectual ability on what I'm sure she will admitt was a soft target. Ovens all you suceeded in doing with your immature behaviour was to alienate anyone who in anyway was considering supporting the UUP. And on that note I would like to thank you for your part in confounding the DUP as the leading voice for unionists at Portora.

P.S- Look forward to a host of DUP speakers lined up next year. Just to be fair we will be choosing them at the ratio of 9 DUP to 1 UUP.

Please excuse my ignorance, but, who, or maybe what is Stephen King?

6county,
Last I heard he wrote horror stories - or maybe that was the advice he gave to Trimble ;-)

"is because he (Taylor) shat himself in 2001 and ran off to the House of Lords before Iris could defeat him in Strangford"

Carrington, not as much as Paisley's blue eyed boy) is Sh****ing himself at present .

Tell us all Carrington, is the story true Paul Berry MLA is going to leave the DUP and set up as an independant?. Funny his face hasn't been seen at any of the very unchristian like gloating DUP celebrations after the election.

"Because he (Ken Maginnis) served in the Ulster Defence Regiment for many years, rising to the rank of Major, in a border area."

David Burnside, Jeffery Donaldson and Michael Copeland MLA served as officers
in the UDR before becoming UUP politicans.

I dont know of any successful UUP or DUP politican who served as a UDR soldier rank & filer, looks like they were all Officers

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Actually Jeffrey rose to the giddy heights(no pun) of corporal

Actually Jeffrey rose to the giddy heights(no pun) of corporal.

Corporal's and Sergeants are non commissioned officers. Only lance Corporals and Privates are classed as rank & filers..

George 2,

Cllr Ruth Patterson, DUP (Belfast City Council) served for many years in the UDR.

"to liberal la la land where all unionists listen to the pontification of Trevor Ringland and read the Irish News"

ah hem, i read the Irish News and quite a few other unionists I know also read the Irish News. I think its helpful to hear the days stories from other perspectives. Besides if you ever read the letters page of the Irish News you will see unionists represented there, definite proof of unionist readers.

By the way I have also been known to buy Daily Ireland, the conspiracy theories are always good for a laugh.

Ooooo Rebecca - next you'll be telling me you enter the Irish lottery!!

"Cllr Ruth Patterson, DUP (Belfast City Council) served for many years in the UDR."

So thats why she got all Bob Stokers transfers from the Balmoral district instead of them going to Dr Edmond Birney.MLA

"I have also heard stories about UUP meetings that when he gets an unappreciative audience he turns on them and asks "how many of you have worn a uniform?". "

What a load of rubbish, I have never heard of Lord Maginnis doing any such thing. Lord Maginnis is one of the bravest men unionist has produced, he was MP for Fermanagh/South Tyrone during a time most people here weren't alive for. As was commented on above, he was a member of the UDR in a border area where most UDR men did not survive, especially those in as high a rank as Lord Maginnis. I remember seeing particularly touching footage of the scene after the Enniskillen bomb where Lord Maginnis had his sleeves rolled up and was helping in the devastation.

He has proved himself in terms of devotion to the union and in terms of putting unionism before himself many many times. To me, Lord Maginnis is a much prouder man a unionism than the likes of Paisley who has done nothing for Northern Ireland other than split unionism, split the Presbyterian Church, made unionism look ridiculous by the many inexcusable things he has said (eg. calling Pope John Paul II the antichrist in the European Parliament).

We should all be proud of Lord Maginnis instead of this horrible, bitter slander campaign.

George 2

1. Birnie was already out of the running by the time Stoker's transfers were distributed.
2. Bob Stoker encouraged some of his voters to transfer to Patterson because he was not on good terms with Birnie.

Rebecca, Sadly this is the way "debate" within Unionism is heading. I think itll be some time before the crowing stops and the thinking begins - that is, those who are capable of the latter.

I agree with you regarding Lord Ken - ironically one of the credentials which he possessed in having actually donned a uniform doesn't seem to have been particularly valued by his community and is precisely the thing that many nationalists wouldn't have seen as positive.

I think his loss was his good luck in the leadership fight in the 90s seeing what happened to the more hardline winner!

Corporal's and Sergeants are non commissioned officers. Only lance Corporals and Privates are classed as rank & filers..

Incorrect, all ranks above Pte including LCpl are NCO's, Sergeants and Colour/Staff Sergeants are Senior NCO's with Warrant Officers bridging the gap between non Commissioned and Commissioned Ranks. Jeffrey was never an Officer, Copeland was a Lieutenant, Foster and Maginnis were Majors. Not sure about Burnside.

George 2.

So thats why she got all Bob Stokers transfers in Balmoral, instead of them going to Dr Esmond Birnie MLA.

As a ratepayer I'm so glad and relieved to hear that Ruth's transfers from her buddy Bob were not a result of an apparent "friendship" between the two and that they definetly don't fraternise together when away on Council Business or at Council Dinners!

and asked how on earth I could ever put on an RUC uniform given that he had seen to their destruction

I think you'll find they're called the PSNI. Why were so frightened of joining the police? What had been 'destroyed' as you say?

Is this to do with accountability?

Such a curious thing to say -- and I think very revealing...

Travis
I would continue - but it seems my post has disappeared!

Just to re-cap. Ken Maginnis is well known for his rantings about 'who has put on a uniform'. I was recalling his outburst at the UUC meeting where Smyth challeneged Trimble for the leadership.

He managed to just about offend most people in the room with that routine.

"I have also heard stories about UUP meetings that when he gets an unappreciative audience he turns on them and asks "how many of you have worn a uniform?". "

What a load of rubbish, I have never heard of Lord Maginnis doing any such thing."

As with all of your recent pre-election predictions Rebecca, (particularly that Tom Elliott was much more popular than Arlene Foster and would never have been beaten by her) I am afraid you are wrong. I have heard Maginnis use this line on a number of occasions. For example, he made the remark during the debate on the retention of the name of the RUC at the UUC AGM of 2000 and in that incident he addressed it directly to the Young Unionists

"ironically one of the credentials which he possessed in having actually donned a uniform doesn't seem to have been particularly valued by his community and is precisely the thing that many nationalists wouldn't have seen as positive."

Jo - absolutely 100% and stunningly WRONG!. Unionists do value, very highly, all those who have served the community either in the UDR, RUC, RIR, PSNI etc etc. What I and most other people find sickens us to the very core of our being is when some people, and Ken Magniniss is a prime example, try to metaphorically beat others around the head with their 'service'. Yes Ken Maginnis served in the UDR, but so did lots of others. Its the self-obsession with this and use of it as a political tool - in some way to imply that others did not serve - which is the obnoxious thing.

Rebecca
What did you make of the election results in Strangford?

Rebecca,

Lord Ken makes this statement regularly in meetings, and i too was present at the AGM in 2000 when he shouted it down the hall at the YU's.

On a minor point, i think it may well have been that other hero of Ulster, Sam Foster, who you recall in footage from Remembrance Day in Enniskillen. Sam was also in the UDR, but he doesnt like to talk about it much! I've no idea why!

"Incorrect, all ranks above Pte including LCpl are NCO's,"

Shows how much new military laws have changed. Until 1961, Lance Corporal was only an acting rank, given to privates who were acting NCOs, and could be taken away by the soldier's commanding officer (whereas a full corporal could only be demoted by court martial).

Yerman, Lord Ken is one of many UUP representatives who have received a metaphorical bashing here in many occasions which I have noted since only have contributed in the last few weeks. Therefore, I think it reasonable, given his electoral defeat in the recent elections, to claim that his military service (which is becoming more and more distant historically to claim that his service in uniform is not valued.

It takes a heck lot more guts to do what he did than to pontificate about "smashing sinn fein" wave gun licences on a north Antrim hillside or don a red beret in the Ulster Hall. Oh and being "sickened to the core of your being" is being a tad precious, dont you think?

Good on you Jo, When did any of the Paisley family ever wear a military uniform to serve their country?

The answer is NEVER NEVER NEVER.

Ian paisley's father a Baptist minister sent him to hide out the WW2 years in a Welsh Baptist evangelical center to prevent him from having to serve.

Indeed,
You must have very little to do with your time, I take it you dont have a job then. I have already told you in many other posts what I expect from you but you keep running away from it.

Bertie,
I suppose you are right in a way, I have never actually noticed him mention it in great detail but if he does it may inappropriate.

Hogg,
I dont think anyone ‘attacked’ Arlene; some people asked her awkward questions which she completely ignored. You know fine rightly that there were more than us two; you seem to have conveniently forgotten the whole Matthew Stewart incident, what was Arlenes reply............ “thats just hilarious” then completely changed the subject. I even you heard you repeat that in the exact same tone not do long ago, i think you’re spending too much time with her! As to the incident in the room beside the heads Arlene thought she could shut us up with the whole “im suing cooper for saying the exact same thing as your saying,” ohhhhhh she really won that didn’t she??? As to Neil being upset, he asked me a few days later about it and he said to be fair she should have been expecting a few home truths! His words not mine. Large numbers of DUP supporters in the room....... You, that other one in your year, your brother, have I missed any? If you would have got much closer to her that day you would have probably ending up smothering her! Tom Elliott annoyed? The same Tom Elliott who while speaking to the head was watching and laughing. She left in quite a huff didn’t she? Ah Thomas I think your memory of that day is a little smudged. DUP leading voice in Portora?? I didnt think Portora had a Political view, the only two public DUP people in the school are you and Gow and since he’ll soon be going I wonder how the “ DUP as the leading voice for unionists at Portora” view will continue, for you know that no one in that school takes you seriously!

P.S will there be many going next year? You know yourself that all but one of the year 12’s last time were in the favour of the UUP with a number being in the UYUC. Suppose you could always get your brother to come along again and make up the numbers.

I think your becoming a little to attached to this Ruth Patterson person remember last Friday you announced shortly after the count had started she was guaranteed to get in, remind me again Hogg what was her final majority?

Yerman

I seem to recall Ms. Black telling us all that Strangford's "brief foray into Loyalism" wouldn't last. Perhaps she would like to tell us all just how long "brief" is, given that, according to the News Letter "Strangford has the look of a DUP heartland"?

FYU,

On a previous thread, you state that you will no longer reply to my posts in the absence of a name.
However, on this thread, about a week later, you jump in feet first to reply to a post i made. Look, i'll even show you it:

Indeed,
Who made the point that Tom Elliott should be voted for because he was in the UDR? You just making up random things again? At least Tom doesn’t describe all farmers as 'tacky'.

Should the blame of SF getting the seat again not fall on Dixon?

TU makes a good point, how would the agreement have been the end of the RIR?

Posted by: Fermanagh Young Unionist at May 16, 2005 06:23 P

Now, saying you no longer hold to the principle* of ignoring my posts in the absence of my name, would you be so kind as to comment on the post i made on a previous thread, and again on this thread, in regard to your political insight and electoral prophecy prior to the election.

You cannot rssort to ignorance again as you defeated your own pre-condition by posting a reply to me earlier.

* Principle: for the benefit of Ulster Unionists, like FYU, here is the dictionary definition of principle:

• noun 1 a fundamental truth or proposition serving as the foundation for belief or action. 2 a rule or belief governing one’s personal behaviour. 3 morally correct behaviour and attitudes.

I suggest it's time to take this exchange to e-mails A.U.

Jo
I never have sought to deny Ken Maginnis's service to the UDR (or do I suggest you said I did). However I find it a little disturbing that there is so much concentration on it.

Why do people automatically think that service in the UDR/RUC equips you to be the best MP? It is a line which was long thrown around in the Elliott vs Foster battle. Again, I have much respect for anyone who served and would never take that away but does the fact that you joined the UDR automatically make you the better candidate? I ask this because when asked for reasons as to why Tom Elliott was the better candidate in F&ST, often the first response recieved was; "well he was in the UDR you know". Also when asked why Ken Maginnis was such a good representative the first response here has often been to talk about his role in the UDR.

It really is beyond childish to get into whether Ian Paisley served in the UDR or not. Both DUP and UUP members and supporters served their country and served it well. However, there seems to be some concerted effort on the part of UUP supporters to somehow corner the market on this 'putting on a uniform' thing.

It does 'sicken me' to have this argument thrown around about Ken Maginnis' service - there are plenty of people who sacrificed as much and more than him who are not mentioned. Of course he should be proud of his service in the UDR, but the 'metaphorical bashing' I was talking about was using this 'uniform' wars to condemn anyon who didnt happen to serve. I'm not saying that UUP members have not been criticised, nor am I saying that DUP members should not be criticised - its just that its crass in the extreme to use his UDR uniform as some sort of weapon in the inter-unionist party battle. Its an organisation which deserves to be treated with a little more dignity than that. Also, I happen to believe that it is my right to decide whether I have been sickened or not - even if that does make me precious!

A.U
Unfortunately 'Indeed' wont give out an email address and I think this needs to be settled. It’s been going on for too long; there should be no need to hide away here.

yerman, I know where yer comin from!

Perhaps people do unduly make something of their security connections, I do find myself a tad annoyed at Jeffrey's crystal clear recollection of his own family's tragedy when he was, at the time, an age when his recollection should at least be somewhat hazy...

Ken Maginness is a liberal traitor - that he used to wear a UDR uniform is completelu irrelevant.

Jo
Fair criticism. Everyone's free to highlight their own roles and to explain their experiences and how that affected them. But using them too much as a meathod of self-promotion is not particularly edifying IMHO.

well, barf, I'd suggest that, from your perspective, thats a tautology, but you'd hardly understand what I meant.

Rebecca

"I have also heard stories about UUP meetings that when he gets an unappreciative audience he turns on them and asks "how many of you have worn a uniform?". "

What a load of rubbish I have never heard of Lord Maginnis doing any such thing."

Well clearly if you have never heard of it cannot possibly have happened. I want to eat now so to endure that it actually happens I want you to have heard of me doing such a thing!

YFU

"Bertie,
I suppose you are right in a way, I have never actually noticed him mention it in great detail but if he does it may inappropriate."

Are we nearly agreeing on something? Where will it end?

However credit where credit is due, it is gracious of you to acknowledge that a strong supporter of Arlene might just have a point. :o)

my second last post should read "ensure" not "endure".

Rebecca

Ken Maginnis was not in the footage of the aftermath of the Enniskillen bomb. He is a Tyrone man he preumably had a more local ceremony to attend.

George 2,
THe Reason Ruth got some of Bob's Transfers and Birnie didn't was because Birnie had already been eliminated. Bob Stoker was elected on transfers after birnie's elimination.

Enniskillen DUP:

"... being a fellow Portoran"
Bravo, fine school, went there myself, y'know.

"you made an absolute foul of yourself!"
Don't they teach you to spell correctly these days? Foul play indeed!

"It really was fun watching Arlene anihilate you..."
We were encouraged to save aggression for the playing field and to use language as a means of enriching our culture, even as a form of communication.

Never mind E-DUP, you should turn out fine with a little more attention to detail and some caution in the use of emotionally-charged words.

"Lord Ken makes this statement regularly in meetings, and i too was present at the AGM in 2000 when he shouted it down the hall at the YU's."

I was abroad for all of 2000 so I wasn't there from that, but given who the Young Unionists were composed of back them, I'd said they thoroughly deserved what was said to them. Most of them are now in the DUP or left. The one who stayed recently lost his council seat. What does that tell you?

"It does 'sicken me' to have this argument thrown around about Ken Maginnis' service"

Well, maybe when you do something for your country rather than sit around on slugger and slag off those who have, then you can "sicken" people.

Using your own name when posting might be the first step down this road to having some balls....

"Ken Maginnis was not in the footage of the aftermath of the Enniskillen bomb. He is a Tyrone man he preumably had a more local ceremony to attend."

I am aware Lord Maginnis is a Tyrone man, but he was also MP for Fermanagh as well as South Tyrone. And that fact was he did spent hours working in the rubble helping people.

Carrington

No response to my question Ms. Black?

I have also heard stories about UUP meetings that when he gets an unappreciative audience he turns on them and asks "how many of you have worn a uniform?". "

What a load of rubbish I have never heard of Lord Maginnis doing any such thing."

Oh dear Rebecca, first David McNasty names and shames you on "the Politics Show" as the future of the UUP, and then you fail to know your own party's history. At that glorious UUC in the piggery at Balmoral in 2000, Ken dismissed the suppoort of Young Unionists for the Burnside motion on the basis that they didn't know anything about security, never having been in uniform. I think there is still a tape of that meeting, if you don't believe me. There were certainly about 700 witnesses.

But under no circumstances should you let this churlish behaviour prevent you supporting Ken for leader. He'll definitely be able to use his military experience to get those lemmings marching in step over the cliff, instead of the undignified scramble under the Turtle

Over the years Ken has been a strong and articulate representative, one not afraid to listen either.

I can only admire him as someone who is prepared to wear the unform and take the frack.

Where were the Paisley family or the Robinsons? Were they on dawn patrol? No, they rant and rave, send dozens with pigeon shooters up an Ulster hill to swear loyalty, yet squat in TV studios while those young men and women meet with death in the decades that followed.

I remember that AGM in Balmoral and yes Ken did make comments to that effect.
I recall at the time believing he was out of order.

However the atmosphere within which he said it cannot be ignored.

All I can say is that many of the YUs at the time were totally certifiable.

I couldn't believe the manic behaviour of some who were almost foaming at the mouth.

I am not exagerrating - I couldn't believe it - indeed that meeting put an unbridgeable gap between me and the No Camp from thereafter as I decided that was the people we were up against.

There was one young small blonde guy with glasses (a sort of Tory Boy) - I can't recall his name but the guy should have been in a straight jacket.

I wish there was a video tape of that meeting because we should have used it as our Party Political Broadcast demonstrating the kind of people who had left the UUP for the DUP.

FYU,

Ovens after all the lies and half-truths you have came out with over the last few months do you honestly expect anyone to take you serious?
Regarding the Matthew Stewart incident I really didn’t think you would want to bring that up. For the benefit of all those not present, this is what he said! “look, there’s absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Sinn Fein are linked to the IRA, so why do the DUP insist on constantly referring to SF/IRA”.
As I am sure most sane minded people will agree that was a very hilarious comment indeed! Arlene then proceeded to destroy his pathetic argument bringing him to the point that he admitted “well,.. I suppose there is a link”!

Ovens the comments you were coming out with to Arlene afterwards were quite ridiculous. Let me demonstrate an example of Mr Ovens’ intellectual capability;
“Well some people would say that you were a traitor ..”. Obviously now proven incorrect.
“Sure you campaigned to get Gildernew elected by backing Dixon”. Incorrect, she was actually on James Cooper’s election communication and canvassed substantially on his behalf…
“Sure when you were in the Young Unionists you did nothing but try to cause rows with the leader”. Arlene has got no problems with traditional unionists especially Lord Molyneaux party leader at the time. He is still a friend of Arlene’s to this day.
Ovens, even the dogs on the street know that Mr Neill as a brother-in-law of James Cooper. He is a source of trimblite propaganda in the school and everything he says should be considered with that in mind.

I can assure you that Arlene was not in anyway annoyed by the experience. She was actually rather hearted by the many good wishes she received from ordinary politically unaffiliated students afterwards. The arguments you posed were in all honesty pathetic. This was clear to all students who gathered round to watch you be so clearly beaten. However to your merit you did continue with your wild claims to laughter of many pupils. Ovens, I admire you bravery.

As regards next year the current affairs society will be in very safe hands. Mr Gaston will be taking over as teacher in charge from the departing Mr Patterson. Despite losing two loyal members in Ian Gow and Alan Grimsley, membership still continues to grow. As you well know the 15 or so students in attendance from my year were nearly all DUP supporters. Any who were on the fence before hand I know are now well and truly converted.

About the students from your year in attendance I have grave reservations as to how may of them will be returning to Portora next year. Gordon, Stevenson and Elliott are, I’m sure you will admit no the sharpest knives in the drawer and would do well to get 5 or more GCSEs. I would also recommend you do some serious studying if you wish to make a return next year.
I can furthermore inform you that there are a very interested group of junior school pupils wishing to join the society next year. This influx will no doubt be further fuelled by the recent announcement that I will be head of Gloucester House next year.

Finally Mr Ovens I will no longer tolerate your constant slandering of Ruth Patterson in or outside school. This disgusting name calling must come to an end if you want to be taken seriously as a political thinker. For your information the DUP gained a seat in Balmoral at the expense of the UUP. This was mostly down to the hard work of Ruth Patterson in her first council term. It was also due to their fantastic vote management and the willingness of Ruth to give herself a slight disadvantage.

Chaps,

Does Portora's Junior Debating Society not have its own website?

NO

David Brew

As I said above, I was out of the country from 1999-2000 so I missed that meeting. I was one of the very few non DUP inclined Young Unionists at the time, unfortunately being away on a gap year prevented me from taking part. At least if I had of been there might have been at least one young unionist who actually wanted to be an Ulster Unionist rather than attempt to be "a cancer from within"

Carrington

Of course the vote in Strangford disappointed me greatly, but thats what the people want and thats what democracy is about. Hopefully David McNarry will continue the excellent work he has been doing as an MLA in the area and will help to restore the reputation of the party in the constituency.

Does the Enniskillen Branch of the DUP consider it worthy to malign the name of what is/was considered to be a school with a fine tradition of academic, sporting and artistic achievement? If not, would it ask its school-student members to refrain from using this forum until they have learned how to submit spell-checked contributions that neither attack other players nor use abusive language. I will be submitting a report to the Headmaster.

Just to strengthen the points put forward by Enniskillen DUP, i would also like to comment on that rather hilarious day at Portora. While i myself was not able to attend due to me being in Scotland looking at Universities(unlike FYU i am planning to go onto a more stimulating enviornment)

However i knew a number of people who were there that day. The first person is Alan Grimsley, once a previous UUP supporter before the Assembly elections, but who then due to my one persuasion say the light, like most Unionists in Northern Ireland and has since backed the DUP, and as we saw on May 5th, in F+S/T also backed Arlene Foster.

As far as your claims about Mr Niell, i was the one talking to him first thing on the Monday after the debate, and i informed him of the digraceful actions of certain Portorans. He was worried that such immaturity could harm the schools capabilities of getting such political figure as Alrene Foster back to the school. May i remind you that without the help of Thomas, who you show great direspect would have never been at the school in the first place.

There is one thing however i do agree with you on!!! Tom Elliot probably was standing at a distance laughing(apparently at Arlene; sure it wasnt you he was laughing at), however the main reason for this being the fact that he could never defeat her in an intellectual debate, or may i remind you in an election. What was it Arlene-14056 To Toms-8869.

In conclusion Mr Ovens i think it was pretty obvious who must have came out on top next year, p.s i have never seen you or any of you cronnies at a Current Affairs Society, meeting so i doubt it will ever go anywere near UUP control, bit like the rest of N.I

Hagrid i doubt any comments from memebers of Portora on this website have in anyway damaged the schools reputation or caused offence. As you know one of the main factors of poltics is debate, which is exactly what was going on.

I would also like to remind you there is a difference between the school itself and the Current Affairs Society, so i doubt anything is being maligned.

p.s high profil political figures such as Nigel Dodds, MLA MP OBE, have came from the school and it does have a rich political history

... have came from?

Oh well, I suppose (intended use of) dialect is not quite the same as poor grammar.

Yes I do know Mr Dodds is an ex-pupil but does anyone outside of Northern Ireland? I prefer to link Portora with names like Beckett and Wilde.

Rebecca
Ken Maginnis was not in the footage of the aftermath of the Enniskillen bomb. He is a Tyrone man he preumably had a more local ceremony to attend."

I am aware Lord Maginnis is a Tyrone man, but he was also MP for Fermanagh as well as South Tyrone. And that fact was he did spent hours working in the rubble helping people."

What makes you so sure?

I was glued to the reporting and I am convinced I would have remembered seeing him involved in the rescue if it had been shown. I do remember him being interviewed at the scene, but this was after the rescue etc was finished. He was not there when the bomb went off. (This is not a critisism) I have skimmed through Denzil Mc Daniels book and can find Sam Foster's witness account and Fergusons but there is no mention of Maginnis. I have rung round people who were there and again the response is "no, she must be thinking of Sam Foster".

If I am wrong I would want to be corrected. Have you any particular reason for your assertion.

Hagrid,

With all due respect the conversations/ discussions which are underway between myself and any other interested party have got nothing to do with you.
As regards submitting a report to the headmaster I am presuming that was a joke. I never new the green pary (which you associate yourself with) was against free speech.

Enniskillen DUP

"With all due respect the conversations/ discussions which are underway between myself and any other interested party have got nothing to do with you."

When you bring them in to a public forum like Slugger then they are fair game, no privacy here

Gasky,

I don't mind someone commenting on or challenging my discussions with others but I will not just be told to be quiet.

"Gasky"
???

"but I will not just be told to be quiet"

In fairness to Hagrid he was merely slagging your grammar, it happens us all. I don't see where he told you to be quiet

Gask-man,
I try to type quickly when posting on slugger. Mistakes can happen.

I agree

Rebecca
"I'd said they thoroughly deserved what was said to them. Most of them are now in the DUP or left. The one who stayed recently lost his council seat."

What on earth has the views of a person on the Belfast Agreement, and their current political home got to do with this 'I've worn a uniform, have you?' rubbish. Most people on this thread have recognised that it crass in the extreme to use service in the UDR/RUC in such a way, but you seem to suggest that its ok to shout (and I mean shout!) down a crowded room "how many of you have put on a uniform?" as a supposed reasoned argument when he happened to be facing a hostile audience.

At least I suppose you are now admitting that Ken does use this kind of facile argument in his 'debates' but at least wake up and see that he is denegrating a fine regiment in the army by constantly waving it around as some kind of weapon in a verbal war against his unionist opponents.

"Well, maybe when you do something for your country rather than sit around on slugger and slag off those who have, then you can "sicken" people."

Like Ken it seems you are quite happy to make baseless comments - you know absolutely nothing about me, or my family, or what we have given and lost over the last 30 years of terrorism in Northern Ireland. Comments like that are about the only things which can make Lord Ken look like a polished diplomat.

Does Ken ask the current crop of YU's whether they have put on uniforms to serve the country? Or does he just save it for those who dont agree with every single last thing he says?

JohnEastBelfast
"I couldn't believe the manic behaviour of some who were almost foaming at the mouth."

How on earth in your previous sentence can you condone Ken Maginnis' words by putting them in the context of a heated meeting and then condemn others for being heated! It seems hypocrisy means nothing to you.

As I recall the meeting was whipped up into that kind of fervour because of the disgraceful speeches from people like Ken Maginnis, and James Currie (i think) from Ballymena. Ken Maginnis' comments were out of order - surely someone of his 'stature' as we are all so often told could take the comments from a few foaming mouthed YUs without cracking and disgracing himself. Hardly the makings of a man who can lead in my mind.

FYU,

I'm presuming that you are undertaking some serious revision and that is the reason for you silence as of late.
I'm glad you have taken my advise.

I see the "Hagrid" has finally returned to his magically fantasy world of Hogwarts.

Enn DUP

you are waiting an answer from YFU, I am waiting for one from Rebecca. Where are they? I am still quite new to slugger, but I wonder if any erstwhile regulars have disappeared. I have got used to a few appearances here and I would probably be concerned if anyone stopped posting. For most of us there would be very little to bring to the police with a missing persons report. Maybe we could get the Sally Army on to it. Maybe that could post on the ex-poster to the effect that they do not want to make contact but are alive and well.

(apologies for the levity to those who may have a loved one missing)

Hogg,
Are you sure that is the point that Matthew Stewart raised? I thought it was something to do with the whole Loyalty issue. She did not campaign “substantially” on Cooper’s behalf, thats what she wants you to believe, ask anyone on the Fermanagh Executive which she was a member of and they will tell you otherwise.

In my statement about the YU’s I was referring to her reign as chairman of the Fermanagh YU’s. Ask her how that all went, are wait heres a better question: ask her many people left it while she had the chair?

You really need to ask for an unbiased opinion of what really happened that day. Yes it is common knowledge who Mr Neil is related to, but I ask you, is it really appropriate to be publishing a mans relatives and his own personal political views on the internet? There is a thing in this world called privacy which you seem to know very little about.

The fact that there was more than one person asking these questions that day has seemed to slipped your mind.

How exactly is Mr Gaston a good thing for the group thing?? I was speaking to a shinner on polling day for quite a while and he mentioned the old group Portora had and quite interestingly St Michaels also were part of it. They used to have proper people down such as John Hume and John Taylor, this was about 20 years ago in the early 80’s he said and you know what, the only rule was no touching, he went on to say how the students would come out blue in the face. Now that sounds to me like a proper current affairs society, not like the one you have tried to set up.

15 in your year?!? Wow I must be going blind for I only saw 4! I dont think you have the right to say who will come back next year in regards to year 12s.

So your head of Gloucester house. I wouldn’t really call that something to boast about, what exactly is your job then? Tell the first years to sit down in assembly, wow you must be honoured! Surely being head of Ulster or Munster houses for example would be a far bigger achievement?

I do not see where you get your claim “constant slandering of Ruth Patterson in or outside school.” If you must know that was the first time I have ever mentioned her, to be honest I had never even heard off the woman before this election. Stop trying to avoid the point.

Tarmon Brae DUP aka Gow,
You have absolutely no idea off what happened that day!

To both Gow and Hogg,
It is strange how you only seem to mention that day here on slugger, we see each other regularly but you never seem to mention to my face! Stop trying to paint a fantasy day over what really happened. Also I have already mentioned, stop using Mr Neil in your posts, hes entitled to his own personal political views, I doubt he would appreciate your posts if he just happened to look on this site.

"indeed that meeting put an unbridgeable gap between me and the No Camp from thereafter as I decided that was the people we were up against."

How interesting, Jawn. Not up against the provos, not up against the Irish Government, just up against the majority of the Unionist community-then and now. Clearly for you the new dispensation exists, and it's "decent people" ( i.e. pro-Agreement) versus the rest. So that's clear then.

And the audiotape will certainly show as much- and more- vitriol being directed against Burnside for having the temerity to suggest actually doing something to save the RUC name than the handwringing which passed for UUP policy at that time. James Currie's litel rant probably convinced those few neutrals left in the hall to support Burnside.( Personally I really enjoyed that meeting particularly the special efforts Cooper and co had gone to to stitch me up, only to find out I wasn't seeking re-election. Poor Jas looked even more bilious than usual!)

And as for criticising those young people who actually had a political vision, some of whom were threatened for not knowing their place- well they were infinitely more admirable, in my view, in that they were motivated by belief in something, unlike the defeatist sheep whose only reasons for hatred were fear of the coming generation and a subconscious twinge of conscience. Well they've had a fortnight to eat the fruits of what they first sowed that day, and I bet it's choking them. There will even be a few thinking the thought that dare not speak its name-"If only we hadn't forced Jeffrey out..."

FYU

This internal Portora sh*te is really rather boring. Knock it on the head and debate politics please.

Couldn't agree more Carrington. Theres know need for people to keep raising the Portora issue here.

FYU

Did you and Enniskillen fall out over some wee doll?, that's the only explanation for such acrimony!

I dont know what Ekn DUP's problem is.

Rebecca
with reference to the following posts:-

"I remember seeing particularly touching footage of the scene after the Enniskillen bomb where Lord Maginnis had his sleeves rolled up and was helping in the devastation.
…………..Posted by: Rebecca at May 17, 2005 11:36 AM

"…………On a minor point, i think it may well have been that other hero of Ulster, Sam Foster, who you recall in footage from Remembrance Day in Enniskillen. Sam was also in the UDR, but he doesnt like to talk about it much! I've no idea why!
Posted by: Indeedeo at May 17, 2005 12:46 PM"

"Rebecca
Ken Maginnis was not in the footage of the aftermath of the Enniskillen bomb. He is a Tyrone man he preumably had a more local ceremony to attend.
Posted by: bertie at May 17, 2005 08:56 PM"

"I am aware Lord Maginnis is a Tyrone man, but he was also MP for Fermanagh as well as South Tyrone. And that fact was he did spent hours working in the rubble helping people.
Posted by: Rebecca at May 18, 2005 10:26 AM"

"Rebecca
Ken Maginnis was not in the footage of the aftermath of the Enniskillen bomb. He is a Tyrone man he preumably had a more local ceremony to attend."
I am aware Lord Maginnis is a Tyrone man, but he was also MP for Fermanagh as well as South Tyrone. And that fact was he did spent hours working in the rubble helping people."
What makes you so sure?
I was glued to the reporting and I am convinced I would have remembered seeing him involved in the rescue if it had been shown. I do remember him being interviewed at the scene, but this was after the rescue etc was finished. He was not there when the bomb went off. (This is not a critisism) I have skimmed through Denzil Mc Daniels book and can find Sam Foster's witness account and Fergusons but there is no mention of Maginnis. I have rung round people who were there and again the response is "no, she must be thinking of Sam Foster".
If I am wrong I would want to be corrected. Have you any particular reason for your assertion.
Posted by: bertie at May 18, 2005 07:38 PM"

Can you please tell us on what basis you insist that Ken Maginnis was working in the rubble for hours.. It has been suggested to you that you are mistaken and you have remained adamant. If you do know something that others do not appear to, can you please enlighten us. If not can I ask you to be a bit more careful about glibly mis-representing the reality of an event that still matters to some of us. Although this event was by no means the only evil visited on Fermanagh over the years, it had a profound affect on the lives of many people

Aileen,

The Enniskillen Bomb happened 18 years ago in 1987 when Rebbeca was probably only a little girl at the time.

All she has to do is say she made a mistake.
So dont take what she says so seriously.

Fiction being presented as fact... a never ending problem in politics..

George2

I appreciate that she was probably a wee girl at the time of the bomb, but she is not a wee girl now. My complaint is not about the original mistake she made, which was an understandable one, but rather her continued insistance on presenting something that is useful to the line she takes as fact despite attempts to point out her mistake. The original mistake did not offend, the lack of respect did.

Aileen,

It is possible Ken Magennis MP was there that day, but not when the bomb went off. He could have travelled from Dungannon or somewhere else a soon as he heard the news. After all he was the MP for the area.

Rebbeca may have heard Ken Magennis talk about it at some meeting and surmised he was present when the actual bomb went off.

Anyway, I dont think she means any disrespect to anyone, least of all people who died or suffered because of the terrible bomb.

George2

Your attempts to defend Rebecca are commendable and chivalrous but I am not mollified.

His appearance at the scene later in the day has already been mentioned. As MP it would have been strange to say the least if he hadn't put in an appearance at the earliest opportunity.

This is different than insisting "And that fact was he did spent hours working in the rubble helping people."

My comment to her "If you do know something that others do not appear to, can you please enlighten us. If not can I ask you to be a bit more careful about glibly mis-representing the reality of an event that still matters to some of us." still holds