Have just listened to Robbo, if he thinks the UUP are no longer relevant why did he keep referring to them in the interview?

Tiny,

Maybe because thats what he was being asked about in the interview...

Robinson is a great strategist and organiser. He can be a very effective speaker too. Unfortunately, and this is inherent in the nature of the DUP, he can't help being vindictive, sectarian ( in many senses) and sneering.
In an ordinary society he would probably be respected and worthy of respect.

I have to agree regarding the uup's growing irrelevance and their inability to select a sutiable candidate substantiates this point.

I have to agree with the above post regarding Peter Robinisons ability but I have seen or heard little about his sectarian nature I think he is more pragmatic while retaining a tradionalist line.

What is the true relationship between Dr Paisley and Peter Robinson?

Peter Robinson was on TV when David Trimble was defeated. It was the BBC coverage and Noel Thompson was trying to draw Peter Robinson into "having a go" at Trimble.

Peter said that while the DUP was glad to see the back of Trimble,(and that the DUP had been hoping for this, he didn`t deny that - obviously) BUT that from the human level, he understood that Trimble was bound to be hurting from the defeat, and that he didn`t want to kick a man when he was down. He could have taken Noel Thompsons's bait if he had wished, but he didn`t.

So, believe it or not, Peter isn`t the ogre you make him out to be. I also agree that he is a great strategist.

I think that those opposed to Trimble have been very restrained. After all the talk about the electorate just looking for a chance to "give Jeffrey a bloody nose" and that Arlene had stolen their votes and they wanted them back. Although no longer a Trimble supporter I was embarrassed for him as they statements were just begging to be ammunition for humiliating him afterwards. Again I am suprised that we haven't seen a bif efigy of Trimble being toppled a la Sadam! (or did I miss it?)

not sure where the "bif" came from - its late

On the results day it seemed the DUP were determined to avoid anything reminiscent of the scenes in 2001 (regardless of whomever was responsible for them) - particular as several interviewers sought to bring them up.

I have to agree regarding the uup's growing irrelevance and their inability to select a sutiable candidate substantiates this point.

who is a suitable candidate?

What a shame that the Big Brother house is being used at the moment, otherwise it could be used for the UUP to select their new leader. I would put all the key faces, including her ladyship in. Just imagine them doing tasks, bitching in the diary room, nominating for eviction and giving reasons. Then UUP members get to vote someone out each week. Just think what the Slugger threads would be like commenting on it all!. (might be difficult to pot any budding romances!) Then the Tories could use it, them Labour. Paisley wont be leader for ever. Imagine DUP Big Brother!

Second thoughts best not, I would never get anything done. I would be glued 24/7.

Jeffrey Donaldson but he is no longer an option since James Cooper decided that it was in the best interest of the UUP to get rid of him.

John Taylor is too old and out of touch.

Ken Maginnis is damaged material due to loosing at the council elections and his blinded support for the GFA.

I suppose if the UUP want to pursure a pro agreement stance Reg Empey is the man but he wont be able to change the UUPs fortunes.

Although Herman was all wrong at least she had some vision before being put in place by Burnside and ultimatly not standing for leadership.

I wonder how the DUP will cope now that the UUP is in such a weak state for the foreseeable future. It needs a strong opponent, an establishment to fight against.

Can't get much stronger than Sinn Fein ira aided by the lapdogs of the sdlp.

Mr Robinson should remember it is a long road that has no turning, he should also remember that the DUP are very much a minority party in Northern Ireland - they even have less than Labour in England who have just over 20% of the electorate supporting them.

He won't keep the God Squad on a leash forever.

If the DUP are a minority then the rest of the parties must be an irrelevance.

The DUP sometimes come across as respectable and then out of the blue they will come out with some raging sectarian rant calling people "romanists" or something stupid.

As for the UUP leadership, Reg Empey is next up. He will take it for a few years to try and sort the party out and then pass the gauntlet onto a younger candidate.

Empey won't change the fortunes he also has the problem of plotting behind Trimbles back so many will not trust him.

If hes leader Mcgimpsey will likely be deputy.

I think the DUP are a lot more respectable and pragmatic than they are given credit for. The DUP has changed that is why people like Jeffrey Donaldson now feel comfortable within it.

"The DUP has changed that is why people like Jeffrey Donaldson now feel comfortable within it"

I am not so sure he feels that comfortable. Now DT has gone, there are rumours circulating that JD and his flock of followers in the OO might return to the UUP to secure leadership. After all his chances of becoming leader in the DUP is slimmer than becoming leader of SF.

He has more of a chance in the UUP of seeking the top position.

You have got to be kidding G2....keep the discussion serious..

G2,

Do I sense a feeling of jealousy within the UUP? Going nowhere and with nobody to lead them...

Now DT has gone, there are rumours circulating mother goose JD and all his flock of little followers in the OO might return to the UUP to secure leadership

Impossible, JDs supporters in the UUC are all but gone, he wouldnt win the contest as the council stands.;

It'll be very interesting to see who gets selected. I haven't made my mind up yet about who to vote for, there's nobody that stands out and the job really is a poisoned chalice for whoever takes it.

It must be a difficult job to decide on the least worst option as leader of the UUP. The only people left with any profile at all are all tainted with Trimblism, so they are unlikely to be seen as an improvement. The exception is probable Burnside, but as he says himself he is too arrogant to make a good leader.

What about Bertie Kerr? He had a strange article in the Impartial Reporter on polling day, which was trying to squeeze a few more votes, by telling the electorate that there would be a change of leadership after the election. It was a bit bizarre but at least indicates that had enough of a grasp on reality to appreciate that a change was inevitable (and the prospect of it likely to appeal to the disillusioned electorate).

bertie,

Bertie Kerr has been urging DT to go now for years, he has made no secret of his dislike towards his leadership.

Burnside is off the scene now and even if he did get re-elected with the biggest majority is Northern Irish history then he still would not have much chance at the leadership.

As Traditional Unionist has already mentioned "JDs supporters in the UUC are all but gone" then Burnside would have little support left on the council and that was reduced even more with his idea before the election of merging the two parties.

Empey for leader, Basil McCrea as a deputy.

I'm not so sure Bertie Kerr was so against Trimble when his son was Trimble's aide for so long.

G2 try to keep the discussion in the real world and not the UUP fantasy world thats why you failed at the last three elections.

Ah but you are mistaken, Bertie Kerr asked Trimble to stand down from his position on a number of occasions.

There can always be exceptions to family loyalty, you may know of the prominent UU in Fermanagh whose son regularly slammed the UUP on every possible occasion, whether it be on radio, the papers etc. The UU later followed Arlene.

I remember not too long ago Bertie helping me out on a personal level in his councillor responsibility capacity. He then went on to say that Trimble was a good leader and would soon return the fortunes of the party. He also voted for Trimle at the leadership contests.

Berties segment in the paper backfired badly when he accused the DUP of not using their transfers effectively then he ends up scraping in on the back on Bert Johnsons votes.

What is the problem between the two Berts of Ballinamallard anyway they seem to hate each other.

Ok Roger

1. I think that reality and fantasy are getting mixed up in your head. Bertie Kerr has been ANTI-Trimble for years. He has often held meetings with him along with a number of other UU cllrs looking to have Trimble replaced. Before all the recent UUC meetings Bertie has always made a point of speaking to Trimble asking him to stand down. He even was talking about those wee chats a while ago on radio Ulster! He has been actively campaigning against Trimble at the last couple leadership contests so will you please stop making up things.

2. I thought you lived in Erne North? You do realise that Tom Elliott’s council vote was nearly bigger than the total DUP vote.

3. "scraping in on the back on Bert Johnsons votes"
I am seriously beginning to wonder about your state of mind for you have obviously not looked yet at the votes in erne north. The rumours that Bertie was not going to get in was due to many people thinking that his other UU candidate (wilson) would not have transferred well to him, they were proved wrong and so Bertie Kerr got in on UU tranfers from Elliott and Wilson.

Look at the facts in the future and stop making up these claims about Bertie Kerr.

3. I think you will find that Kerr got in by transfers from Johnson and Mandy Mahon got more 1st preferance votes than him.

2. The fact is the DUP have two extra councillors and the UUP have two less and if it wasnt for Elliotts pathetic intervention in the westminster election we might have a unionist MP.

My favourite Tom Elliott line is two elections ago Noel Thompson was talking to him outside the forum and he asked where he was at(vote wise) and Tom replied 'I'm outside the forum'.

1. Why did Kerr want rid of Trimble as they both were pushing the same failed GFA, Kerr had no alternative strategy to Trimble. The fact the Kerrs son was Trimbles PA did have an impact on Kerrs loyalty to Trimble.

Roger,
Your lack of common sense is starting to show,

"I think you will find that Kerr got in by transfers from Johnson and Mandy Mahon got more 1st preferance votes than him"
1. Neither of the DUP candidates reached the quota on fpv. Tom Elliott was way over it. If you think about it the same happened in Erne west but look at the result there. The UU ran more candidates in Erne North, think about what you write before you actually post it.

2. The number of fpv do not determine who gets in. Mandy Mahon was still 3/400 below quota. I think it was the first time ever that Bert Johnson did not even reach it.

"for Elliotts pathetic intervention in the westminster"
2. The same could be said about Arlene last time, you can not just forget about the past even though that is what certain people would really like to do. (ahem -> dup)

3. That’s hilarious Roger (sarcasm), and what age where you there, you have told me before you were 16 in 2001 so you were 12 at that election. I honestly doubt he did say it or if he did it would have been a simple misunderstanding. I will inquire.

"Why did Kerr want rid of Trimble as they both were pushing the same failed GFA"
4. Bertie Kerr did not agree with Trimble on a number of issues.

"The fact the Kerrs son was Trimbles PA did have an impact on Kerrs loyalty to Trimble"
5. And how was that? I honestly can not believe what you are saying, if you knew the slightest thing about Bertie Kerr then you would realise that he was passionately against Trimble.

Think about your reply this time.

I will think about my reply alright

The Fermanagh Herald and the Impartial reporter both covered the story about how Kerr got in on transfers from Johnson. The fact that the UUP ran more candidates is irrelevant as they only took one more seat than the DUP.

2. I agree on this point.

3. lol this story is true I watched it myself it was the council election after Coopers ill faited election run you may be able to see it in BBC archives.

4. Bertie Kerr stated many times he disagreed with the GFA but supported it anyway thats a sensible policy and one willy ross pulled him up on.

5. Kerrs stance on Trimble must have changed near the end as originally he was very pro Trimble.

""for Elliotts pathetic intervention in the westminster"
2. The same could be said about Arlene last time"

you mean when she failed to support Jim Dixon against Cooper?

Roger,
1. I ask you what was the final difference between Bertie Kerr and Mandy Mahon and then how many transfers did Bertie Kerr get from Johnson...... exactly!

3. I am confused, what election are you referring to '97 or '01?

4. He did not publicly show support by backing the UU leadership.

5. I see you have changed your view, then why did you make the 'claim' that he told you he voted for DT at UUC meetings?

Bertie,
"you mean when she failed to support Jim Dixon against Cooper?"
No! I mean she failed to support Cooper against Dixon.

1. The transfers brought Kerr up to the Mark. I'll have to find the exact figures.

2. 2001 election I said it was 2 elections ago that makes it 2001.

3. Betie Kerr said to me directly with Trimble things will get done and that will be better than Paisley being in charge. He supported Trimble I believe partly due to his sons involvement but in 2001 he was DEFENTLY a Trimble supporter.

"The transfers brought Kerr up to the Mark"
Yea all couple dozen of them, realistically they had very little effect.

Fair enough, I thought we were on about the '97 election.

"Paisley being in charge"
Well obviously not many UU would disagree with that.

Did he actually say in his own words that he supported Trimble at the UUC meetings. If you continue to say yes then it will become clear that you are lying.

"was DEFENTLY a Trimble supporter."
And that’s why he voted against him and he often held heated discussions with DT over his leadership. Come Roger I thought even you would know this.

YFU

lets see if I've got this right.

""for Elliotts pathetic intervention in the westminster"
2. The same could be said about Arlene last time"

you mean when she failed to support Jim Dixon against Cooper?

Posted by: bertie at June 4, 2005 01:19 AM"

"No! I mean she failed to support Cooper against Dixon."

failure to act is not usually regarded as an intervention.

She knew that she had a certain number of followers and she made a point of telling them to vote for Dixon, yea her defence to this claim is that she says she appeared of Cooper's material but that is it, she failed to canvass for Cooper, she openly said that Cooper was not the right man for the job, and to certain people she openly encouraged voting for Dixon.

She knew that she had a certain number of followers and she made a point of telling them to vote for Dixon, yea her defence to this claim is that she says she appeared of Cooper's material but that is it, she failed to canvass for Cooper, she openly said that Cooper was not the right man for the job, and to certain people she openly encouraged voting for Dixon.

"She knew that she had a certain number of followers and she made a point of telling them to vote for Dixon"

On what do you base this claim?

One of these people telling us.

Sure that person wasn't rattling your chain?

I know Arlene very well and did at the time and she never made any comment to me that could be interpreted as supporting him and she knew that I wouldn't have held it against her if she had.

I am 100% about its authenticity, obviously you did not know her well enough, if you ask around you will probably come across some of her supporters who would have voted for Dixon.

Even if all her supporters voted for Jim, it doesn't mean that she told them. What I do know of her supporters (and I am one of them) they/we are not people who need advice on who to vote for in F&ST.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.