I know I'm the eternal optimist but wouldn't it be great if the arrests coincided with the international humanitarian award they richly deserve see link:
McCartney Sisters On Award Shortlist

I'm sure when arrests do happen they will be carefully choreographed with something things like this often are.

What do you think it could be choreographed with?...... What was the actual killing choreographed with?......

No doubt the cameras will catch every moment

Dublin reception to honour McCartney family

"These strong women have been resolute in pursuing justice for the killers of Robert McCartney," said Cllr Conaghan. "Their cause is a fundamental Human Rights issue for everyone on this island and beyond."

Wasnt one of the main suspects in this grusome murder a relative of the British agent stake knife and wasnt his brother shot by IRA as an informer some years back , ive always thought there was a lot more behind this case than a mere bar room brawl .

I hope the mc Cartney s do get justice for their brother and that all the guilty persons in the first and second degree of participation spend lenghtly terms in prison, i also hope they convict the right people

Apart from the incredible courage being displayed by the McCartney family, the most stiking feature about this whole affair is the attitude of republicans.

The begrudgery they show towards the McCartneys search for justics is hypocritical in the extreme, when you consider how much they insist on demanding that the rest of us listen ad nauseum to their own campaigns.

Martin

Let me guess, you've been reading the Sindo, haven't you?

Like too many incidents here, the murder of Robert McCartney was a truly unjustified and quite a chilling act of depravity. I fully agree with the posting which states it would be great if progress coincided with the international humanitarian award the family deserve.

That all said... I can't help be feel the family would be like all other SF sychphants if this hadn't fallen on their doorstep. It is sickening to see how SF type republicans begrudge the family what they now deserve. This was evident when they voted against the motion in Europe.

Zorro,

"This was evident when they voted against the motion in Europe."

I thought some continental commies were the only ones to vote against the McCartney motion.

whatabout

It's the subsequent police and political pantomime that seems to have been choreographed since the murder. I don't think anyone wants to deny the McCartneys justice and as far as most people are concerned there should be no delay in achieving this.
My comment was a response to the previous post which hoped arrests would coincide with a possible humanitarian award.

Martin

Who are you talking about ...lol.

"continental commies"/SF voting against the McCartney motion.

If you travel the world you will eventual meet yourself... Unlikely bedfellows I admit but alas..., it would seem to be the case.

'Point is SF have been forced in to helping the family and begrudge doing it. Alex Maskey talks sheepishly on the subject.

Zorro,

"SF have been forced in to helping the family and begrudge doing it."

What have SF done for the McCartneys lately that they didn't do before the European motion?
I hope you are not just talking off the top of your head.

Barney

I think they (SF) abstained from the motion.

What did SF do, well apart from sending Maskey in to complain about police brutality when houses were searched immediatly after the murder. It would lead you to believe that everyhing the DUP said about SF was true

Barney,

It is my belief that SF has adopted a damage limitation approach to this very sad incident. I think they have left a number of stones unturned and I think the sisters see that now.

As one SF election supporter said to me on the
day of the election, when asked why he had come all the way from Mayo to Armagh,

"There are some people you don't say NO to!"

SF and Tony Blair have at least one thing in coomon - they are each great masters of Media SPIN. But then again, I open confess to not being able accept anything SF say or do on face value. I believe SF is disingenuous. it strikes me that the SF leadership don't wish to be seen handing over volunteers to the British establishment. So, talking to the middle ground, they say one thing on camera and another to their sychophants behind closed doors.

Zorro,

"This was evident when they voted against the motion in Europe." 01:50 PM

Wrong, they did not vote against the motion. As this fact hasn't altered your opinion then how they voted is not important to you. Why mention it?

"SF have been forced in to helping the family and begrudge doing it." 02:55 PM

"I think they have left a number of stones unturned and I think the sisters see that now" 03:53 PM

Not sure what you're saying here Zorro. Are they helping or not?
Would it change your opinion of SF one way or the other?

"..it strikes me that the SF leadership don't wish to be seen handing over volunteers to the British establishment."
You believe that the post-Patten PSNI are merely an extension of the British establishment. Are you a Shinner?

barney - technically they abstained, but it was pretty clear that they opposed the motion, apparently it was too political IIRC

DCB

Great to have your insight. When did you find this secret method of tapping into the thought process of Mary Lou McDonald and Bairbre de Brún?

SF clearly opposed the motion and so, with damage limitation in mind, abstained. They may be able to spin this to their sychophants but to the objective onlooker, it can be seen for what it is. Is this ever so slight difference in fact, supposed to mean and signify something? I for one don't think so.

To clarify one point, and to put it quite simply, if SF wanted those responsible to admit their guilt to the PSNI, it would happen. Anyone who thinks this is not the case is deluding themselves.

It is true to say that post-Patten PSNI is in fact n extension of the British establishment. Until reunification, what else can it be?

Zorro,

I agree with what you say about SF being able to solve this if they wanted to. I do believe it will happen and possibly very soon. I think they have to solve it in order to be able to move on now. Its a pity Lisa dorrians family dont have the same support from politicians to help them get justice for her let alone bring her home. They will have to do it on their own.

Synergy,

If this is truly the case, as I believe it is, then it demonstrates the extent to which SF is being disingenuous in it’s condemnation of this very sad event. In looking after its own selfish party interest it is leaving behind the people. The person, the individual becomes a commodity, a vote, a demographic number… I have written elsewhere on this site that I openly admit to being unable to believe anything they say. Surely such a cynical and disingenuous foundation is no basis for a new agreed Ireland of Equals?

The Press Association are reporting a new threat:
The family of murdered Belfast man Robert McCartney has received a threat from republican elements, it has emerged.

The sisters of Robert, who was beaten and stabbed to death outside a bar on January 30, told of their worry as this second threat appeared more sophisticated than the one from "criminal elements" earlier this month.

Catherine said the PSNI had confirmed the latest threat was from republican sectors.

She said: "This threat implies that republican elements are going to take action against the McCartney family if they continue to discredit the republican movement."

The family spokeswoman added: "We just found out on the way up to Dublin that there has been another threat but we want to confirm the details of that. But we understand the wording of it is that it was from republican elements, the last threat specified criminal elements."

The sisters - Catherine, Clare, Gemma, Paula and Donna - were in Dublin as guests of honour at a civic reception held by the city's Lord Mayor.

Catherine said they would be ringing the PSNI to confirm further details about the threat after the ceremony.

"It is worrying, as I say for us personally, I want to see more details of the threat because if it is the way it was read out, the language tends to be more sophisticated than the last threat. If you read the last threat, it was criminal elements may have threatened," she said.

Earlier this month police visited the sisters - and Mr McCartney's partner Bridgeen Hagans - at their Short Strand home to tell them "criminal elements" were threatening to burn down their homes and the business one of them runs. The women believe they are being targeted by republicans for their campaign to bring their brother's killer to justice.

Mr McCartney was stabbed in a pub frequented by republicans and his family believes the IRA was involved in the murder, with one accusing Sinn Fein of not doing all it could to help bring the killers to justice.

There is no atmosphere of intimidation within the area.
Just people trying to get on with their lives.

Synergy
I see your point about the Lisa Dorrian case. David Ervine, though, has been very supportive of her family and , according to the Dorrians, so has Lady H.

"David Ervine, though, has been very supportive of her family"

A pity he was not as supportive of the family whose son was mutilated by Mr Irvine's paramilitary comrades on the Newtownards Road two weeks ago

"This threat implies that republican elements are going to take action against the McCartney family if they continue to discredit the republican movement."

I would suggest that it wasn't the McCartney family who discredited the republican movement rather the people of republican movement themselves, and themselves alone.

I wonder what the posters who said at the last threat - 'it's not republicans, the PSNI say so' - will say this time ? Will they accept that this threat IS from republicans ?

would the murderers of Robert Mac cartney please give themselves up and confess to what u have done,since u wown'/t do it out of decency or any sense of juilt ,do it for the people of ulster so that at least we can turn on our tvs,read our newspapers and get on with our lives without seeing those sisters at a new media circus everytime we turn around

sorry about misspell on guilt above.

Davros

Will they accept that this threat IS from republicans ?

Is there any evidence that it is? What was the threat and where did it come from. Have you any details on which we might base a judgement.

It's not so long ago we were told that the money found in Cork was from the Northern Bank robbery. Forensic tests we were assured would prove it. Well they haven't.

So I think a sceptical approah to claims and an open-minded approach to actual evidence is the safer and wiser stance to adopt.

Henry - you are missing the point :)

Some republicans and posters here were happy to accept the PSNI saying the earlier threats weren't from republicans - and those are the people I'd like to answer my question! After all none of them came out and challenged the PSNI to produce evidence that it wasn't republicans....

what I cannot understand - and still continue to fail to understand - is how some people on this site do everything they can to undermine these people's search for justice.

THEIR BROTHER WAS MURDERED - WOULD YOU NOT ALSO DO THE SAME?

Forget about sectarian motivations. Forget about what organsations the perpetrators were involved with. What they did was wrong and they should pay the price.

harlequin

I agree completely with you, but to try and see through the reasons for some hostility you have to look at a wider picture and how people percieve , NOT necessarily the McCartney sisters but the level of media and political interest in them.

Since the troubles began there have been over 3,000 murders and to my understanding little over half of them have resulted in convictions of the perpetrators. It is not an exaggeration to say the murder of Robert McCartney has probably become the most famous and widely reported unsolved single murder in Northern Ireland's history.

There are thousands of grieving people in N.I who to this day have not seen justice for the loved ones snatched fom them yet have not had a fraction of the media attention the McCartney sisters have recieved , let alone an audience with the President of the USA and the undivided attention of the European Parliament.

I don't begrudge the sisters anything. Good luck to them It is utterly shameful that there has clearly been a cover up and dozens if not hundreds of people are engaged in covering up savage animalistic behaviour that shames a civilised society, BUT I can understand why people living in close knit communities like the Short Strand which will have witnessed many horrific events barely publicised over recent decades might be sceptical about the reasons for such media attention to this case.

Colm

I echo what your sentiments in the above post however I have been very impressed with these brave sisters and another mans who deserves recognition is Michael Gallagher whos son was killed in the Omagh Bomb.

Roger

I admire all relatives of any persuasion who have the courage to fight furiously in rage and anger at the murder of their loved ones.

I know it's easy to say this with hindsight but if more relatives friends neighbours and concerned parties of murder victims had stood up with the tenacity of the McCartney sisters at the beginning of the troubles maybe the endless decades of bloodshed might have been avoided.

Some republicans and posters here were happy to accept the PSNI saying the earlier threats weren't from republicans - and those are the people I'd like to answer my question! After all none of them came out and challenged the PSNI to produce evidence that it wasn't republicans....

You need a far higher standard of evidence for a claim that someone was involved in something than for a claim that they were not.

But either way it is for the PNSI to produce evidence to support their claims not for anyone else. If I am told I am not a suspect in a crime and I accept that it does not follow in logic or in fairness that if I am a suspect in something else the burden of proof is transferred to me.

It remains as ever with the accuser.

For a plaintiff to win a civil case the case must be proved by a preponderance of the evidence.
www.courts.state.wi.us/services/juror/glossary.htm
N. Corey • 17 May 2005

Well it was inevitable, wasn't it? If Omagh can have one, why not the McCartneys too? What am I referring to? That auld Salem legacy, the witch hunt of course. And all funded by the EU...but only if the PSNI fail in their investigation. Waaoooow!

And just like Omagh, if you are of a republican nature, you are guilty until proven guilty... don't let the lack of, or more precisely, the non-existence, of evidence stand in the way.

Justice isn't the sole possession of the injured party. The accused also have a right to justice and are, not presumed, they are innocent until proven guilty and have the right by their very existence to a fair trial. Like Omagh, will we hear calls for the accused to be denied legal aid in their right to representation in court?...

Civil actions of this nature tend to pander to the public's emotions and quite often as these actions are funded by the public they, the public, want a return on their money. And so, even under the circumstances where a "police force" which is acceptable by the whole of the community, and where these forces of law and order have not failed (if there is no evidence then there is no evidence) but simply are unable to bring to court the perpetrators of a crime, justice cannot be served by the hounding of those same perpetrators who have been identified and associated with the crime through other means such as media reports; and neither based on evidence that the police felt was not strong enough to convict them with in the first place.

This would only leave the doors wide open to miscarriages of justice and undermine the validity of any proceeding. A scoundrel is a scoundrel, but not guilty of all crimes whispered alongside their reputation.

If the civil action fails can those, the accused, return the favour on the McCartneys? And how much money will be awarded to them from the EU to fight their case for compensation? Can justice only be seen to be done when a person(s) is publicly vilified at whatever cost?