Cllr Wallace Browne elected Lord Mayor of Belfast

Pat Convery Deputy Lord Mayor

sinn fein contested both positions with daniel lavery + margaret Mc Clenaghan but only managed to recieve the support of their own party.

Margaret McCleneghan didn't go for mayor, it was Caral Ni Cuihlin, doh!

{Man not ball, comments referred to Mick}

MOD

Once again it was Thompson's fixation with SF and republicans that dominated the conversation. Once again the BBC let the concerns of nationalists go by the way as if there is no anxiety within that constituency about the bona fides of the bigots and unreconstructed backwoodsmen within the ranks of the DUP

Pat's absolutely right. Thompson was following a unionist line, consistent with BBC commentators whn questioning British Ministers. Though if this was bad, Pat, you should have heard Seamus McKee on Radio Ulster interviewing the same minister earlier in the week- absolutely shocking.

Pat / irishman

"Once again the BBC let the concerns of nationalists go by the way as if there is no anxiety within that constituency about the bona fides of the bigots and unreconstructed backwoodsmen within the ranks of the DUP"

This show had a dedicated segment on the DUP and its relationship with the Free P church a concern persistently raised here by nationalists.

Paul

"Margaret McCleneghan didn't go for mayor, it was Caral Ni Cuihlin, doh!"

Do I sense a slight hint of sour grapes on your part.

Not at all, the Shinners had it in 2002-03 with Maskey, it was the DUP's turn. I know Wallace in a professional capacity, he's a decent bloke.
But it you are going to make statements at least base them in fact

Comments removed "Ball not man" please! (moderator)

fair_deal

Does the fact that the show had a segment on Free Ps and the DUP prevent Thompson from even asking a question of Hain regarding the DUPs commitment to power-sharing??? What of loyalist paramiltaries, active in N Belfast at the weekend and attacking the homes of SF members - including G Adams. Not even worthy of a question?

Irishman

In an interview not everything can be covered and the programme overall clearly had a balance.

paul,

I'm sorry about the incorrection but that is what I was actually told by the SF press office.

Irishman

What confirmation has there been that loyalists were responsible for the attack?

I would have assumed that if loyalists were able to get their hands on the details of senior SF figures, they would go around their house toting more than ball bearings. Here they have the chance to cripple the republican leadership and they don't take it?

Being honest, I dont actually believe that it was anything other than a SF publicity stunt though I'll have no problem admitting I'm wrong if someone can prove otherwise.

..was this month's election result a victory for the extremes, or a cry for help from an alienated electorate?

Can't see where you're coming from on this one Mick.... Clearly the electorate is alienated (at the very least divided)but clearly the uncompromising views of SF/DUP are extreme.

It could be argued that unionists must have behaved better than nationalists - as there wasn't the same overwhelming movement to the extremes in the nationalist electorate as was seen in the unionist community who were pushed into voting DUP by the intransigence of the RM, whereas substantial numbers of the nationalist electorate rejected SF extremism.

( not necessarily my view, but something to discuss on a dreich Friday evening !)

Unionism seems to be running scared and lacking confidence in it's own position.

Republacanism seems to be drunk on it's spin and hype.

Either way, when people aren't thinking straight they retreat into their shells where they know they are safe. ie same old, same old...

For unionists to go to the extremes to be the equivalent to voting for Sinn Fein, the biggest unionist grouping would be PUP/UDP. They would probably be very happy to do a deal with Sinn Fein/IRA. They could carve up NI between them. They have so much in common with each other and having a different view on the constitutional question would possibly never get in the way of thev more important work of subjugating "their own".

They are both vampires and we need Blade to help us out ;) ( tongue-in-cheek mods ok )

bertie,

Don't they both engage in their own form of cross-community projects? Don't they both decide who can sell what and where they can sell it?

I know that most unionists in Belfast are ashamed of people like the PUP and UDP. In court they only got in because the DUP underestimated their vote and transfers had nowhere else left to go.
Hopefully Mc Coubrey and Smyth will be out next time and perhaps also Ervine. They have let unionists down badly...

Zorro,

I would not be suprised. There was a program once about a gun and the people who had been murdered using it. Apparantly it was part of cross community co-operation, Republican and loyalist murderers had used it. I'm surprised they didn't get a grant fot it.

bertie,

LOL. It is a sad but true fact that much if not all of the drugs sold in Loyalist areas comes up from the South.

And they say both sides need to talk to each other. Seems they have planty to say to each other!

Good to hear yous two pour scorn on both sides.
Its refreshing from the usual whataboutery.
Any ideas on how things might be resolved?

Zorro
This is probably why they were the only unionists Mo Molam had any time for - their willingness to engage fully across the nationalist/republican spectrum, murdering them, dealing with them and negotiating with them, yep that's the way forward.

To the Green man we have to expose inustice and tell it as it is...

To the Blue man we have to let them take the low road and we'll say a prayer on the high road...

Obvious init?

Zorro
Do you mean the injustices done to the Green Man, or the injustices he's doing?.
Agreed about the Blue Man , not sure if it should be in latin though :)

spirit-level
The Green man can never be unjust 'cos he's a Green man! Even when a pub brawl gets out of hand, he can do no wrong. He is always the one who is wronged. There is no two way process here.

spirit level

I wish I knew, its a bit sad that all I can think of is pouring scorn on them.

Seriously, I sometimes think that, as a unionist, I should go to the scene of things like Harryville and Holy Cross and try and take some sort of stand, but I might just have ended up by making things worse. There is also the problem that such an action would feed the abhorant notion of collective guilt, as if I was assuming some of the guilt for being a unionist. I remember being really cheesed off when a cardinal (sorry I forget his name - no offence intended) apologised (not just expressed sorrow) on behalf of RCs for the Poppy Day Massacre. It was the IRA not the RC church! If Eames ever did something similar, I would be disgusted.

bertie,

I totally agree! This apology culture has to come to an end. What is Tony Blair going to apologise for next? Joan of Arc?

bertie
I agree with what you are saying about the cardinal/Eames. Society will only be able to walk forward when people return the majority vote to the middle ground parties. So long as the C1s and C2s stay at home on voting day, the extremes will prevail.In the playground people only hear the loud minority because the silent majority are..well, silent!

Zorro
You are making a lot of sweering statements about cross community activities by loyalists and republicans with no evidence offered. On Thursday I witnessed Loyalists and Republicans share contact details to communicate with each other to prevent a repeat of recent interface violence. This was at a public forum with statutory bodies etc. present. It's easy to swipe and allege, it's harder to do the slow work.

Re the Holy Cross thing, if I'm honest there is also the desire not to be identified with the pious do-gooders who would be drawn to that sort of gesture.

Maybe that is the answer, maybe we need to reconcile ourselves with our inner do-gooder and risk making pious pratts of ourself, which many of us fear more than physical danger, (not that I'm not also a coward re physical danger as well!)

RedPaul
It is my firm belief that paramilitaries on both sides have only served in dragging this society down to their level. None have an ounce of decency or any positive contribution to make. That fact that some can see their own shameful acts for what they are, is not surprising. It is a positive consequence of 9/11. But the fact that some treasonous gangsters are making a show of being seen to do “the right thing”, quite frankly makes me sick. It stinks of their own sad paramilitary excuse of “we are defending OUR community” I’m sure Loyalists and Republicans love to read people laping up all their hard work – maybe you think just great?

Like all our issues Zorro, there are complexities imvolved. There is posturing or there is pro active, developmental work by committed people who are exploring different ways of finding solutions. I could mock the 'moderates' who failed to persuade society but I prefer to work with those who risk their arses in their own communities and beyond to prevent or manage conflict.
It might depend on how close you are to it.

RedPaul

If you are using the term loyalist and republican, just to mean people who live in those areas associated with those terms, who have not themselves been involved in the thuggery and terrorism themselves, then fair play to them. If you mean loyalist and republican as in what is euphemistically termed "paramilitaries", then as far as I am concerned they are the scum of the earth and I am not impressed by the notion that they are managing and co-ordinating their intimidation to keep it within some mutually agreed boundaries.

You’re patronising, slightly idealised approach is naïve. It is self-evidently true that there are complexities involved – tell us something we don’t know! To infer the ‘moderates ‘ are not committed people is an insult.. You approach sounds like a paramilitary. You can’t be a true republican if you don’t support the Provos. People can’t be working for the betterment of society if they are not prepared to “risk their arses in their own communities”

They say hostages eventually come round to sympathise with the cause of the hostage takers as part of the human desire to survive. I would suggest RedPaul, you’re sympathies are misplaced.

I am no fan of paramilitaries and what they have done to us all, and each other, historically. However, if there is a sectarian confrontation where I live and I witness paramilitaries trying to stop it rather than running it...does that not suggest change? This place was not unknown for sectarian confrontation and violence before the emergence of the groups as we know them today. Dig, and think, a little deeper.

Sorry Zorro but you seem to hint at a 'Stockholm Syndrome' here. Fortunately not true. Naieve, unfortunately not. I didn't infer 'moderates' weren't committed, I was suggesting they didn't convince enough people of their approach. But we are getting there in this place. Slapping the armchair isn't enough, there is still work to be done!

The Problem is Guilt and Blame., and lack of Trust.
I reckon if the IRA came clean and shut up shop, unionists may well accept a "collective guilt" for being bigoted; then we'd have a power-sharing of sorts.
Lots of big hugs.
It has to be the Green Men to take the first step, as the current "status quo" is against republican ideals, and better suited to unionists ( london rule ).Though I know many unionists are fed up with that option aswell.

It would be so courageous for the IRA to step down, even if Paisley will scream that he's won.
Let him. It's a hollow victory. The World will see. Paisley can have his medal; but then he'll have to negotiate face to face. I realise my post is full of generalisations, but there's a gist there; which I hope is recognised.

All of this talk of the IRA stepping down, disbanding, going away. They will never say that

I just can't see it.

I may be wrong but history says I am right

They should Chris this is holding up the peace process and many victims of the ira will have no faith until there is a confidence building measure by the republican movement.

"They should Chris"

What should happen and what will happen could be two entirely different things.

"many victims of the ira will have no faith until there is a confidence building measure by the republican movement."

The reverse is also true roger

many victims of the british security force collusion will have no faith until there is a confidence building measure by the british government

I think you will find that the RUC have been transformed into a police force accepted by nationalists as well as unionists.

The ira need to decomisson, disband and disappear there can be no arguement to the contrary.

"I think you will find that the RUC have been transformed into a police force accepted by nationalists"

No they haven't

"The ira need to decomisson, disband and disappear there can be no arguement to the contrary."

Of course there can Roger, there can always be an argument to the contary

The GFA only called on the IRA to decommission, not to disband or dissapear

I didnt support the GFA and neither do the vast majority of unionists in NI. If sinn fein support the agreement so much then why dont the ira decomission.

Only Sinn Fein wont accept the psni but that is for solely political reasons they are happy to seek the protection of the service when required.

There is NO arguement that can justify the existence of the IRA.

"Only Sinn Fein wont accept the psni"

Sinn Féin is the majority nationalist party!!

even some in the sdlp have missgivings, Martin Morgan

"There is NO arguement that can justify the existence of the IRA."

In your eyes

Yes in my eyes I cannot think of an arguement to justify the existence of a sectarian murder squad.

I think you will find that many members of the catholic community are joining the police force.

Yes in my eyes I cannot think of an arguement to justify the existence of a sectarian murder squad.

I think you will find that many members of the catholic community are joining the police force.

"I think you will find that many members of the catholic community are joining the police force."

How does that support your previous far reaching statement?

"I think you will find that the RUC have been transformed into a police force accepted by nationalists"

I could say many members of Unionism support the GFA but that doesn't mean Unionism supports the GFA.

Roger either you are naive or you are being disingenuous

"Yes in my eyes I cannot think of an arguement to justify the existence of a sectarian murder squad"

I agree, the British army and the RUC/PSNI should go

I am afraid neither will be going the gfa that you claim to support makes provisions for the Bristish army to always have a signifcant force in NI at least 5000 soldiers.

Incidentally I find you abhorrent in your support for the ira whom have carried out many secterian killings such as Enniskillen, border shootings and Tbane to name but a few. So long as people like you exist in NI stroking the fires of death and destruction, NI will never be a peaceful and democratic society.

That's way OTT Roger. I think you owe Chris an apology.

Roger can't explain his apparent hypocrisy so he engages in whataboutery

Typical!!

"Incidentally I find you abhorrent in your support for the ira"

I wouldn't be able to sleep now

"So long as people like you exist in NI stroking the fires of death and destruction"

How exactly do I stroke the fires of death and destruction?

You are making some serious allegations here Roger so you would need to have some serious evidence to back them up!!

Chris
What is the purpose of the IRA today?

RedPaul
Let’s be clear, I am not hinting at Stockholm Syndrome, I am, by definition, making a direct reference to it and whether intentional or not, your posting does seem to suggest the moderates are not as committed. This is quite frankly preposterous and as I have previously stated, sounds as you lend support to what the paramilitaries do. RedPaul, I don’t wish to sound sarcastic but to see you suggest the moderates didn’t convince enough people of their approach is laughable! Like I said on my previous posting, tell us something we don’t know.

It is my belief that the paramilitaries of both persuasions are treasonous, each to their respective countries. Sadly, there are too many cases to site as examples of this and I don’t wish to be accused of “whataboutery”. I will venture to site the example of the McCabe murder in the South, though I am keen to stress that I am aware of the hundreds of similar cases committed by each side. This particular case was even more saddening because it involved the murder of a police officer who was not seen as “the enemy”. Then, as if to make matters worse, SF political representatives were negotiating for the release of those guilty of his murder.

This is not “whataboutery”. Having been invited to cite “proof” I use this case to demonstrate that paramilitaries are looking out for themselves and are disloyal to the very cause they claim to be fighting for. It is a well documented fact that the paramilitaries orchestrate attacks, riots, street fighting, almost at a whim. They can turn on the violence almost at will. So forgive me for not patting the boys on the back when they help an old lady across the road or tell a young lad to go home to his mother and not throw the petrol bomb.
No one would advocate paying the playground bully to stop taking your dinner money. The bully would only keep coming back for more and likewise with the paramilitaries. Giving them any support is like Stockholm Syndrome, unless of course you are one of them?

Unless I am one of them?! Never have been, never will be. Work with them though and meet some right bastards but also find many trying to work their way out of conflict and ensure others don't do what they did. Why don't they leave the organisations? As they would then have no influence on those remaining. Watch the next 12-18 months to see how the various groupings move is all I can say for now.

RedPaul
Don't expect anyone to thank the playground bully for not taking the dinner money by force! It would be wrong to rely on his friends to point out the error of his ways, though if it happened it would be welcomed by all, not least the bullied. Are they really his friends or not? What a web to weave!

Instead, what is needed is an authority figure and that figure can be found in the clean lines of democracy.

Pat and Irishman

I have absolutely no problem with you pointing out bias - on Slugger or on the Beeb or anywhere else you find it. Call it as you see it!

The problem with the two posts at the top of the thread is that are accusations devoid of any evidence or evidence. It would be much more useful if you could take a bit of time to lay out your argument, than perform a simple hit and run.

Others are likely to construe (or misconstrue) it as a simple attack on the man (Thompson et al), rather than playing the ball (media bias).

Zorro
I think the playground bully analogy is a tad simplistic. However I appreciate your fulsome apology for suggestioning I was a paramilitary.

RedPaul,
RedPaul
I make no apologies for opposing the paramilitary view of “you’re either with us or against us.” I find that school of thought simplistic. Let’s be clear, I did not suggest you were a paramilitary. I have no way of knowing if you are or you are not a paramilitary activist and quite frankly care even less! Unlike the self-appointed paramilitary judge and jurors deciding whose lives are expendable, I have nothing, in that respect, to apologies for. The point I was trying to make, unsuccessfully it would seem, is that you spoke as though you were. My argument would be that society would benefit from people lending their support wholly to democratic parties, instead of given tacit approval and support to those who, by their very nature, undermine democracy. I too have lived in difficult social circumstance, far removed from what would be considered acceptable. I don’t need anyone to tell me how to get a long with my neighbour but I do know the hold some people have over their community. You infer there are people who belong to the paramilitaries, solely in an effort to exercise a positive influence, steering some away from wrong doing. Can a dog serve two masters? I don’t think so. Democracy has no grey areas.

Mick,

no problem at all. Here we had a set piece interview with the British overseer Peter Hain. In the past week we had a series of concerted attacks by the LVF against Catholic homes right across North Belfast. In the past week alone we have had at least 10 shootings of people in unionist areas. Noel Thompson, for whatever reason chose not to mention this to Hain.

It is totally inconceivable that if republicans had launched widespread attacks on protestant homes and had the IRA shot ten people in the past week that Thompsom would have failed to mention this to Hain. Indeed, I venture that the prompting for another IMC report would have occurred there and then.

The interview concerned what the IRA must do to convince the DUP and their electorate in order to facilitate political progress. It is right and fair to expect Thompson to point out that actions by the IRA are not the only requirements to be met. It is right and fair to expect Thompson to question why the democratic credentials of the DUP where not mentioned given the rampant sectarianism within that party.
It is right and fair to expect Thompson to question Hain on the ongoing campaign by loyalists that seems to be down played at the expense of real or imagined republican attacks.

Pre election it was pointed out that Thompson adopts clearly different approaches to unionist and republican spokespersons. With republicans the questioning very quickly becomes argumentative as he frequently cuts across the interviewee.

While at first glance this may appear a case of man not ball it is not so. The substantive point being bias on the part of the interviewer

Zorro
.." unless you are one of them?"
Pretty clear to me.
You are still avoiding my substantive point, although I am beginning to suspect you aren't capable of grasping it, paramilitaries aren't simply inherently bad people who need to be civilised. It is much more complex than that.
Re: interface violence etc. If Twaddell/Ardoyne goes belly up again, will you be out there stopping it? Or will it be local Loyalist and Republica activists from the communities who don't want to see it happen anymore? I can hazzard a guess.

If Twaddell/Ardoyne goes belly up again, will you be out there stopping it?

We'll soon find out If Celtic lose another important match and their Ardoyne fans go on another rampage .....

RedPaul,

My experience as an American is that community activists working with the police creates the best chance for reducing neighborhood violence and promoting neightborhood renewal. The private sector is then much more likely to invest in an area and improve everyone's life.

Alan
I agree, although we obviously still have an issue about policing here within the nationalist community. My main point is this: regardless of what Zorro wants paramilitaries to do-piss off now- this is not going to happen. Therefore it is necessary to engage with those inside who want to 'escape from the jungle of paramilitarism' as a long standing loyalist frequently argues.

RedPaul,

Re the trouble at Twadell, while the violence was initally started by a small number of drunken Celtic fans a large crowd of loyalists from the Shankill appeared on the scene armed with hundreds of golf balls and proceeded to escalate the skirmish into a riot thus bringing more nationalists onto the streets.
While nationalist community workers arrived on the scene and proceeded to quell the nationalist crowds the loyalist interface workers refused to answer their mobile phones, seemingly not wanting to quell the trouble.
When this is added to the fact that there was a major LVF assault on nationalists in N Belfast the previous Friday and the added fact that unionist guns are being used on a nightly basis one has to wonder if there is a willingness on the unionist side to have a quiet summer.

I agree, although we obviously still have an issue about policing here within the nationalist community.

Redpaul - SF and republicans have a specific problem- which I suspect is at least part of their reason for refusing to work with the police - If they co-operate and investment comes in then people in these areas will be happier and less likely to vote SF. Same reason as SF cannot allow the Belfast agreement to work properly - as when working it will strengthen the status quo and people will be less likely to want to risk change.

That line of reasonming was why the IRA did everything in their power to prevent improvements
in nationalist areas, for example they made sure Grundig didn't place desperately needed Jobs in nationalist areas by kidnapping and murdering Thomas Niedermeyer.

Pat
I agree with you to a point..a nationalist present said that was his view until after when he spoke to his loyalist counterpart who said he was in serious diffs at the time from the loyalist crowd and could not communicate. The two people have now devised away of communicating such difficulties should it happen again. Hopefully then there will be no breakdown in trust. I think some people don't realise the personal danger activists like this place themselves in, within their own community. They have guts and committment.

Dav
Do you think the example about investment and employment, you gave, is really illustrative of that of Republicans today?

Do you think the example about investment and employment, you gave, is really illustrative of that of Republicans today?

If you are asking me do I think that SF would approve of Kidnapping and murdering industrialists, no I don't think that Redpaul. Most of us , including many in SF, have moved on.

SF still have that problem though ... They daren't allow too much prosperity within deprived areas .
They cannot allow the Belfast Agreement to be too successful - as a stable and Prosperous NI is NOT going to facilitate their goal of a United Ireland.

Luckily for them Unionism was too thick to see that treating nationalists fairly made the Union more secure.

Agree with your first point Dav however I don't think Republicans block economic investment in Nationalist areas. The Terence O'Neill view of making them behave like Protestants with a bit of economic 'buy in' hasn't necessarily been the case! I think Tom Nairns was closer when he reversed traditional marxist economics versus nationalism theories. The property owning nationalist in Glengormley who came from the New Lodge is still more likely to vote SF than SDLP.

I don't think Republicans block economic investment in Nationalist areas.

I don't think they actively block investment either Redpaul. I'm pointing out their dilemma. The more good they do for their areas the more they in effect weaken their own powerbase. SF have done a lot of good work for the have-nots- for which they deserve credit. However converting have-not areas to
have-areas in itself will diminish the party's appeal as the one thing that sets it apart will no longer be necessary.

Interesting Dav
But what about there relative success in attracting MC nationalists in Balmoral etc?

None of these things are absolutes Paul ( if I can call you that ?) - look at the "Nice middle-class" candidate SF fielded in Dublin - Would results have been different if Mary Lou had been a rough-diamond working class candidate with a whiff of cordite ?

Call me what you like Dav, none of it will be as bad as what I get called in the house...

Was Mary Lou's selection not evidence of SF going for a broader vote than the traditional constituencies? There are non working class 'nationalists' who are receptive to a broadly republican agenda.

Mind you, she's a bloody awful politician.

Davros

I make no apologies for what I said anybody who supports the ira needs to be slated a Chris Gaskin and his violent republican ethos are a thorn in the NI peace process that needs to be removed.

Paul - Re the broader appeal - SF do seem to be approaching a position similar to that which led to the Birth of New Labour ... And of course one has to ask - if a United Ireland were to be acheived would Sinn Féin disband ?

Mick

Please forgive my tardiness in responding to you- I'm only looking at Slugger tonight for the first time since I contributed my piece yesterday.

Firstly, you accuse me of not elaborating on my reasons for alleging bias against the BBC and particular commentators.

In the case of Noel Thompson, I did so in the initial piece- of ten questions he asked Peter Hain, not one addressed nationalist concerns re Unionist attitudes to power-sharing or loyalist violence.

Regarding the BBC generally, their record at a local level is appalling. If you don't believe me, Mick, then listen to interviews conducted by Wendy Austin or Seamus McKee, the senior anchor personnel at the station in the morning.

Last week, Seamus McKee interviewed Peter Hain for 20 minutes on Good Morning Ulster. In the course of the interview, he demanded to know if the Minister 'valued' the Union, if the Minister still believed that nationalists were ever discriminated against in the history of the state and if the Agreement could be changed. What he DID NOT challenge the Minister on was what the British Govt. were planning to do to combat unionist violence (which was unleashed on N Belfast catholics last weekend) or nationalist concerns re unionist attitudes to power-sharing and to changing the GFA.

This is not man-playing, Mick, and to suggest it is is to profess a degree of ignorance I assumed you were not guilty of.

Roger

"Chris Gaskin and his violent republican ethos are a thorn in the NI peace process that needs to be removed"

I do not have a violent Republican ethos, I would only support armed struggle if there was no other way.

BTW Roger, how exactly do you propose to remove me?

You have crossed a line here roger

Davros

"And of course one has to ask - if a United Ireland were to be acheived would Sinn Féin disband ?"

Of course not

Davros : if a United Ireland were to be acheived would Sinn Féin disband ?"

Chris : Of course not

Why not- when it had acheived it's raison d'etre ?
Wouldn't the Unification of Ireland into a 32 county republic render SF redundant ?

"Why not- when it had acheived it's raison d'etre ?"

Sinn Féin's about a lot more than just a UI, provided that is one of the primary aims. The new republic must also be socialist.

I find it quite arrogant for people to think that as soon as a UI is achieved SF will just go away and leave the politics to the real boys.

Sinn Féin have policies on almost every political issue and we want to see our politics to the forefront in a UI.

Arrogant ? Who,Me ? ;) LOL

Once a fair and just 32 county socialist republic is up and running, is the job not done and would SF not have to have a major rethink including redrafting it's constitution?

"Once a fair and just 32 county socialist republic is up and running, is the job not done"

Of course not, you have to keep it running

"would SF not have to have a major rethink including redrafting it's constitution?"

Why would we redraft our constitution? we just did that

Why would we redraft our constitution? we just did that

To reflect the changed circumstances ? After all that's why you just had, as you pointed out, a redraft of the previous constitution.

As soon as there is a UI our constitution will have to be redrafted as will every other political parties.

Mr Gaskin

First of all am happy to allow the DUP to pursue its agenda of keeping armed republican OUT of government even if it means a generation of direct rule.

There was no need for the violent agenda that the ira pursued for over thirty years against people from both traditions. It was sectarian and unnecessary I have resepct for people in the SDLP whom never sought to resort to violence to achieve their aim.

Regarding Sinn Fein its relevance will disappear if the ira disappear that is why the ira probably never will.

Finally this UI agenda you put forward what benefits will it bring to the people of both the ROI and NI.

How will protestant culture be treated in a UI will it be any better than its treated currently in NI.

Roger

I will answer your questions when you answer mine.

You have made allegations and insinuations and you aren't going to be allowed to run away from them.

Im not running I think I have answered your questions.

The Glitz and Glammer of the real $inn £ein

You haven't Roger

"Chris Gaskin and his violent republican ethos are a thorn in the NI peace process that needs to be removed"

You still haven't explained how you wanted me removed

Your beloved ira should decomission, disband and disappear and no longer be a threat to the population of NI.

You are currently removed from power and as long as the DUP speak for unionism it will remain that way until the ira disarm.

Roger

Who do you think you are fooling?

At least have the guts to say what you meant. You clearly and unambiguously said

"Chris Gaskin and his violent republican ethos are a thorn in the NI peace process that needs to be removed"

That does not square with your previous post

You have not answered my questions and have neatly avoided them by attacking me. Maybe because they are unfomfortable questions for republicans in general.

What I meant is that Sinn Fein ira should be REMOVED from the process allowing an assembly with completely democratic parties.

Roger, you have been running around it circles trying to twist your statement for the last half hour and you still haven't explained how you want me removed?

You did not say Sinn Féin you said "Chris Gaskin"

Chris Gakin sybolises and supports the sinn fein ira republican campaign. Its really not too difficult to understand.

Yes I want Chris Gaskin removed from the process as an activist for Sinn fein and the ira there is really no place for such a person in a peaceful NI. Therefore it is correct that you will not be allowed into government fully armed.

Now answer my questions.

Roger are you on any kind of medication?

"Chris Gakin sybolises and supports the sinn fein ira republican campaign"

How exactly?

"Yes I want Chris Gaskin removed from the process as an activist for Sinn fein and the ira there is really no place for such a person in a peaceful NI"

So you want me "removed" from the six counties, how exactly?

"Therefore it is correct that you will not be allowed into government fully armed."

LOL, are you for real?

I will not be in government because I am not elected LOL

When you say "fully armed", will I be allowed in partially armed?

RedPaul,
Come down from your ivory tower. I find your patronising tone offensive.

”.. I am beginning to suspect you aren't capable of grasping it..”

I for one would never suggest that all paramilitary activists are inherently bad people; Ying Yang? This is hardly a substantive point! But see if YOU can GRASP the argument that there is no alternative to democracy. If you think the men of violence CAN serve two masters then I would suggest you are deluding yourself. In a nutshell, there is no alternative to democracy and to suggest that ONLY community activists working under the guise/protection of paramilitaries can be effective is quite frankly an utter nonsense! Violence need not play a part in the equation. Remember what men like Ghandi and MLK achieved? My final word on this matter will be to quote the great man himself:

“Nonviolence is the law of the human race and is infinitely greater than, and superior to, brute force. ”
GANDHI

Irishman

Noel Thompson challenged Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson (and Nigel Dodds I'm pretty sure) about Ulster resistance and its guns on the BBC's election day coverage. It was among the first three questions he asked each.

Had he forgotten his Unionist script that day?

A piece about Ulster-Scots on Hearts and Minds generated the highest number of complaints the programme had ever received about the behaviour of the interviewer, who was Noel Thompson. Ulster-Scots is primarily an interest of people from a Unionist background.

Just another off day for Noel?

On the wider institution, the GAA gets extensive coverage and BBC NI has its own Irish language unit. The Orange Order gets an hour and a half a year (and there are demands for that to end). Obviously a deeply ingrained anti-nationalist mindset.