Gerry Adams is defecting to the DUP.He has saw the error of his ways but nevertheless has decided to jump from one group of head the balls to another group of head the balls.

Haven't a clue - but am sure that they will be warmly recieved.

I would love to know who the 'big hitters' in the UUP are. Seems like most of them are over the hill and ready for retirement. If a UUP Lord cannot even hold his council seat, it surely is a decisive moment for the party.

The next 5-10 years belongs to the DUP. If they can achieve some progress then they will be there to stay. Maybe the centenary year for the UUP is a good time to wind up the party.

I think we mentioned the wind up a few months ago when the UUP leadership were laying flowers at some monument to mark their anniversary, only if you'd seen the pictures, it definitely looked more like a remembrance / funeral.

Irony is a wonderful thing.

I heard Mick Read say last night that a newly elected Cllr and senior orangeman will be moving to the DUP today.

From the sound of Jim Rodgers last night on UTV it could well be him. Does anyone else think this?

I heard Mick Read said last night that a newly elected Cllr and senior orangeman will be moving to the DUP today.

From the sound of Jim Rodgers last night on UTV it could well be him. Does anyone else think this?

I hear Archer Jnr. is considering moving over to the DUP.
That's probably about as accurate as anything big Ken Read comes out with. He is a nice guy who tends to believe all he is told.

Christ not 'buck' rodgers. I am not aware of him being a senior Ornageman? However this is a term the media bandies about willyu nilly at times.

If he did join it'd put me off joining the DUPs and a few others I'd know.

Here's a long shot. Tom Elliott? He is a County Grand Master. He was re-elected to Council.

fair_deal,
I know that Tom Elliott would be very welcome in Sinn Fein. After all he did work very hard to get Michelle Gildernew and the least they could offer him was a membership.

Mara

I wonder did you ever wear a uniform and put your life on the line to stop the IRA killing people in your community??

Tom Elliott served in the UDR for several years and unlike a lot of the loud mouthed twats in the DUP who talk a good fight and never joined the UDR or anything else - he actually knows what is it 'fight terrorists'.

The fact is that there should have been one unionist candidate in FST and one in SB.

Don't blame Tome Elliott for the failure of Robinson and Trimble to agree a pact.

The fair electrol pact offered by the DUP was rejected by two fermanagh 'unionists' namely fergerson (who lost his council seat) and cooper (who cudnt beat gildernew last time and ran away!) .... these 'gentlemen' have a lot to answer for!! but the electrol will probably never get a chance again!! ...and berti kerr (fermanagh counciller) let the cat out of the bag. He was heard saying at the westminister count in Omagh "id rather see sinn fein in than the f..ing DUP. so this is why the uup handed two seats to nationalist parties!!! THEY HATE THE DUP!! WE'LL LISTEN UP .... WERE HERE TO STAY!!

6countyprod,
Lord Maginnis did not lose his seat, he moved to another ward which SF had taken from unionists in 2001, he was trying to take it back for unionism. It was a brave thing to do, he knew the risks but he still went ahead, that’s what I call loyalty.

Ronaldo,
That’s an excellent point; he served for 18 years risking his life every single day and night for what.... for DUP supporters to slag him off for not being a 'real' unionist. It was the UUP that created the peace of which everyone formerly in the UDR are so thankful of.

Stevie,

'id rather see sinn fein in than the f..ing DUP'
I honestly doubt it, who told you he said that? Suppose it was Arlene or someone like that, Bertie is an experienced cllr and he wouldn’t make such a naive statement.

... you obviously dont know berti very well!! i can stand over this! it WAS said! ...and regarding maginnis - he didnt go to clogher valley to truy ang ger the seat back of the shinners, he was pushed outa dungannon and came 4th in the unionist rank!! and it was the dup who nearly took the seat back of the shinners .... just 10 votes. Can i ask who lost it anyway????

FYU

"It was the UUP that created the peace of which everyone formerly in the UDR are so thankful of."

My father, as with six other family members, served for years in the UDR. Since Trimble signed the Belfast Agreement he looks back on his years of service and the friends he buried as a waste. Of the seven, five would have been UUP voters, now none are. They have many words for David Trimble 'Thank you' is not among the vocabulary.

FYU has went very quiet!!! .... can u not come back!?? are u beat??

Even back in the days when I would have been a Maginnis supporter I used to cringe when he came out with the "what uniform did he wear?" stuff directed at anyone with the temerity to stand for election without having been in the UDR. Most ex-UDR do not feel the need to raise it as an issue. They are the real heros. Is it because Maginnis was in the UDR, it was alright for him to support an agreement to let the terrorists out of jail

FYU has went very quiet!!! .... can u not come back!?? are u beat??

Stevie,
How do you know this was said, did you hear it personally from his own mouth? Have you taped evidence? I do not really know the whole Dungannon issue but I heard that he left his own relatively safe enough seat to go and try to take one back. Also if a person does not reply immediately that does not mean they cant, there are others things than computers in this world.

Fair deal,
Obviously SF in government will always be a sensitive issue in unionism but you have to admit those 7 members of your family including your Dad all now are living in a far safer environment than what they were say 15 years ago, that is the result of the UUP theres no denying that.

Bertie,
Maginnis was a high ranking officer in the UDR and correct me wrong but did the UU not try to stop the prisoners being released but then the PUP voted for it??

trimble, foster etc. campaigned for an agreement that included release of murderers and to this day still seem proud of it.

FYU

They worked hard for peace and that those attacking the community be caught and serve their time in jail. They were prepared to make sacrifices and live with danger to achieve this. They view the events of the past seven years as a dishonour to their service.

"that is the result of the UUP theres no denying that"

It can be denied. Appeasement can produce results. So the developments of the last fifteen years are all the work of the UUP, all credit to DT, the superman of peace processes. I wonder how all the other participants over the last seven years feel about that claim?

"the UU not try to stop the prisoners being released but then the PUP voted for it??"

Who told you that bollox?

If we are living in a safer environment it is because of 9/11, and the USA reaction. That will be the main restraining factor on IRA/Sinn Fein terrorism, in the future at the spectacular level, not of course the one off murders that can still be dismissed as "internal housekeeping". If it was not for 9/11 it was more a matter of time when the high levels of violence started up again, which would be when dragged as many concessions as they could with only the threat of a return to violence, (supposing that our government ever did start to say no to terrorists and actually mean it). If appeasement really worked perhaps we should have given in to the IRA in 1969.

Sinn Fein should have no trouble cutting a deal with the Free P DUP. After all, they refused to serve in the British Army for the most part.

The more UUP leave for the DUP, the better for Alliance, a real centre party who would secure the union for all religious persuasions.

The UUP were hopelessly brittle and fractious.

Aquifer

"After all, they refused to serve in the British Army for the most part."

You base this claim on?

Alliance, a real centre party who would secure the union for all religious persuasions.

What is your definition of a centre party

You people make me sick. Is it any wonder you're in the state you're in. Grow up.

"The fact is that there should have been one unionist candidate in FST and one in SB.

Don't blame Tome Elliott for the failure of Robinson and Trimble to agree a pact."

Wasn`t that the deal the DUP put forward and the UUP rejected offering to stand down Billy Armstrong in Mid-Ulster to allow the DUP a free run there (as if there were any chance of shifting McGuiness)?
The rejection of the deal lies solely at the feet of the leadership of the UUP as stated by Lord Kilclooney of the UUP who advised for the above deal.

As far as "defections" go....I think we may see healing of rifts and "mergers" rather than defections. Burnside for instance comes to mind. What is lacking however is a "leftist / center" party which can accomodate Unionism. I don`t know if there are many votes in it but surely the UUP and Alliance and perhaps the SDLP should be looking at some form of partnership based on Northern Ireland being governed fairly and equally by the people of Northern Ireland. Stick with Northern Ireland, forget the constitutional issue and concentrate on HERE not down South or across the water.

FYU,

That "naive statement" made by Bertie Kerr at the elction count is very much true. Taped evidence? perhaps not, however, several people heard him slabbering on like this and have mentioned it to me. The comment didn't surprise me, it just reitereated what I already believed: that the UUP didn't want Arlene to win the seat so stood Tom 'I'll do whatever you tell me to do' Elliott to split the vote and hence give the seat to Sinn fein/IRA. Actions speak louder than words, so regardless of whether BK said this or not...the majority of Unionists in FST know it to be true.

I wonder what Tom Elliott's old collegues think of his behaviour by letting in a representative of the people who tried to kill them! After 18 years in the RIR did Tom learn nothing about loyalty?

Bertie,
And why wouldn’t they still feel proud, yes there were a number of sacrifices but now look at the N.I we live in today.

Fair_deal,
So you’re saying they would still prefer to be living in the violence of 15 years ago?

Betty,
These people that told you this, they wouldn’t happen to be DUP supporters would they?!? Did the results in FST not tell you anything, not many people can say that Arlene stood a good chance even if she was the sole candidate.

Mara,
And yet the question of loyalty arises once again, I honestly doubt there are many people that resent tom. How many times do I have to say this- Arlene WOULDNT have got in anyway!!

FYU seems to have a problem with the DUP (hardly a suprise when the uup would rather have sinn fein) - I can sat 100% that indeed Berti made these comments. The fact that FYU doesnt like them doesnt take away the fact that they were made!! These comments were not taped (people dont usually carry listening devices into toilets), however a council canditate (now a counciller) heard him make these comments, and challenged him on them! Also if you have ever attended an election count Berti seems to spend a lot of time with the shinners, yet he never speaks to his unionist collegues in the DUP. Shame on him.

S W,
It is not hard to have a problem with the DUP and this claim about UU preferring SF is Ludicrous. Since you say that this person is now a DUP councillor and was in the mens toilets then I assume you are talking about Paul Robinson?? The more you speak the more obvious it is becoming that you are lying, do you really think that if a DUP cllr challenged an UU cllr about such a serious claim then that would be the last time it would be heard?? How come no one else at the count heard about this little scuffle?

"Berti seems to spend a lot of time with the shinners"
Em, no he doesnt and just for your information the DUP completely blanked the UU at the count last week.

FYU

Acctually, the council candidate wasnt Paul Robinson, and the comments atributed to Mr Kerr were indeed said. As i have previously said, just because you didnt like them or agree with them doesnt take away from the fact that they were made!!
Were you at the election count?? i for one congratualated counciller Harold Andrews, Baird, Irvine, and Tom Elliot. (and i can say my other collegues did likewise) Tom Elliot is a decent fellow, whome i personally know. I dont have a problem with personalities, just the policy .... and people like Bertie Kerr! because of silly disgraceful comments!

FYU

"So you’re saying they would still prefer to be living in the violence of 15 years ago?"

Nice try to bate me. Thank you for admitting your party's policy is one of appeasement of terrorists. They want what they believe they made their sacrifices for - a honourable peace.

S W,
So who was it that challenged him? If they were a candidate and now cllr then it has to have been Robinson no one else can fit that description.

No I was not at the count but my father was and I was speaking to Alec Baird then afterwards and neither mentioned your claim. Out of interest were you at the count? Which councillor did you go on behalf of for they only are allowed to bring two supporters along with their wife/partner?

Fair_deal,
I never said they gave into terrorists; I was making the point that if it were not for the UUP and a few specific individuals then N.I would not have the peace that you and I are living in today.

I was indeed at the count, was counciller Bert Johnstons count agent. The comments attributed to Mr Kerr were heard at the Westiminster count in Omagh on thr Friday, persumably regarding Arelene. I know she 'jumped ship' and the UUP are probably quite sore about that, but she had no other option, she only jumped before she was pushed!

Remember to read you Uniionist membership card before you start slogging at each other. Remember the objectives of the UUP are for the maximization of Unionist representatives at all levels of government (it dosent specify UUP here, just Unionist)....Objective number 3.

It seems it is easier for you to attack each other rather than concentrate your energies on the enemies of Ulster...SF/Ira