I had an interesting conversation with a fellow youth worker a while back and he made an interesting comment.

This individual went to jail on a number of occasions but has well and truly got himself and his family sorted out and is trying to achieve something positive with his youth work. As we discussed the various problems we were having with the behaviour of young people he made an interesting observation.

"When I was doing what I did I knew they were wrong. My parents had always tried to teach me right from worng as did sunday school. With this generation too many just have no sense at all of right and wrong."

I think I suggested a few days ago about another incident that plastic bullets should be used on anyone attacking the emergency services. (That said, I think I also suggested a return of corporal punishment but anywho...)

These scum need to be dealt with. You can't really sink much lower than attacking someone who's trying to prevent the loss of life and/or serious injury.

I blame the parents. An old cliche, but oh so true.

Legal protection for junior thugs and criminals needs to be rescinded, they must face the full force of the law. They commit adult crimes, they should face adult law.

At the risk of sounding like an unreconstructed Tory, these animals have too many ready-made excuses - usually drilled into them from their excuse-for-parents - about their aberrant behaviour.

I suggest, to avoid prison overcrowding, these individuals are used for scientific research and replace the current defenceless animals used for product safety tests and medical experiments.

Nurse some valium for Travis

I think attacks on emergency services should be treated as attempted murder, as you're essentially denying aid where someones life might be in danger.

I don't really agree with the use of plastic bullets but something similar should be used in these cases.

Should the Police accompany ? Difficult, but I would say yes as I don't think we should expect the people working for the emergency services to have to face this sort of thing.

Community service instead of plastic bullets.
Let them get up 4 o’clock in the morning, rectifying the damage they have done.

All well and good Betty Boo - but that is after the event... by the time it has gone through the courts some Fireman could already have
been blinded or scarred for life. Why should they be expected to take it ?

Hallo Davros,

You are right but if you hit their time and pockets they think twice the next time.

Plastic Bullets and Community Service are not mutually exclusive. To clarify I was suggesting the use of plastic bullets as a deterrent and a means of control, not as a punishment once they've been apprehended (although there's a novel idea!).

Maca - why not plastic bullets? Republicans/nationalists tend to oppose these without putting forward credible alternatives. If you prefer live rounds though, I've no problem with that either.

Unfortunately Betty, many of the perpeptrators are likely to be up at 4 am most mornings anyway

No one in their right mind can call this anything but despicable.

If only the people who do this could get it into their little heads, it is their own people they hurt.

Ricardo,
Let’s see then how long they last without sleep.
If they fall asleep at the job, they have to do twice the time.

Beano
"Republicans/nationalists" and now 'others' "tend to oppose these".
They are dangerous weapons, lethal in some cases. I'd prefer they'd search for more suitable/less lethal alternatives. Just MOO.

gotta go ... flight to catch.

Beano,
Solving violence by the means of violence usually turns into a very deadly spiral.
You should know.

How do you correlate "doing more for youngsters from deprived areas" with giving "stiff penalties" for those invovled when it is these deprived kids who are involved. Giving them stiff penalties is not likely to deter them from doing it again.

Rather, they should be made work alongside the Fire Service for a few weeks to show the invaluable service it provides. Perhaps if they saw them at a real callout, saving lives, they would think twice about their dispicable behaviour.

Davros,

Are you saying its not ok to throw bricks at the fire brigade but it is ok to throw them at the police ?

mnob, the police would be in a position to defend themselves (and the firemen) whereas the firemen on their own would not be.

By all means search for an effective, less lethal weapon than PBRs, but in the mean time they're all we have save live rounds (and water cannons which would take too long to deploy).

betty, they're already attacking firemen and potentially costing people their lives.

Beano,
My concern is and it is a real one that if more force will be deplored against those hitting out at emergency services, more violent the situation will become.
No one could be possible looking forward to street wars.
The use of violence will always create a violent responds. That is the deadliness of the spiral.
And don’t get me wrong, to see the emergency services getting stoned and battered hurts.

Davros,

Are you saying its not ok to throw bricks at the fire brigade but it is ok to throw them at the police ?

Question too daft to waste time answering.

According to Firefighter lucky to be alive after rock attack in the Belfast Telegraph attacks are running at around ten per week.

A friend of mine on the NIFB told me that these attacks are very common. They debate whether it is better to publicize them, or if publicity only breeds copycats. Currently, they are using publicity to see if the community will get behind them and rein in the rock throwers.

Personally, I think this has to be solved at the street level. The community needs the fire service, and the community should protect the crews. Sending in police with the fire crews shouldn't be necessary.

The copycat problem does need to be addressed.

I recall after the launch of a DOE advertisement on the dangers of throwing objects fron motorway bridges,the copycat attacks started straight after

The advertisement had to be pulled because of the possibility of incidents actually increasing.

By all means search for an effective, less lethal weapon than PBRs

You know those big hoses that firemen carry around on their engines..?

Use your imagination. Think Drumcree protest and a Belgian water cannon.

There was an article in today's Mirror - How the world deals with yobs. Here's an extract:

CONNECTICUT
The US state has some original idas. WHen two East Hartford teens were arrested for setting fire to leaves, their sentence included washing the fire engine. It did the trick and the reformed youngsters loved it so much that they kept coming back to help fire staff.

* * *

In NI, there is a certain anti-authoritarian legacy of the Troubles that we've never addressed. If kids are allowed to think it's OK to brick the police, it's only a small step away from chucking stones at fire engines and petrol bombs at ambulances.

Inevitably someone will die before we wake up - either a firefighter or someone who perishes in flames because the firefighter isn't prepared to unnecessarily risk his neck to get to the scene.

Gonzo - of course if in the middle of fighting a fire the firemen "could" turn the hoses on the yobs.

but

1)what happens if a yob is hurt and sues?

2) a hose that is needed is taken from fighting the fire

3) Mightn't work in cases like the above where it seems that the FB were lured to an ambush - and are attacked before they get the hoses out and connected up.

Fire Service today, ambulances before that, the police before that, the army before that....and then attacks on teachers in classrooms and on the street, and attacks on medical staff at A&E depts. Who disagrees when I say that the wheel is off our social morals wagon?

Can any of these attacks, and I mean those on the police and army all those years ago as well, be justified?

Test

in looking at dealing with anti social behaviour within young people, the anti-authoritarian legacy is being compounded by a absence of a link between consequences and actions.
often the time scales for a youth being arrested and receiving a punnishment can be months if not years, by which they have forgotten about the original offence.