The McCartney sisters have been fairly absent from the new pages of late.

Compared to the Pope you mean.

No, I mean compared to the end of February/early March.

"But a small group who confronted the women as they handed out leaflets for a vigil outside the pub, where he was killed, ensured that they are back in the limelight again."

They're better off there anyway, it's much less dangerous than magennis's! ;)

Nahhh, shurely brave members of such a 'hard pressed community' (whine, whine) wouldn't stoop to the level of issuing death threats against a bunch of unarmed wimmin? West Brit securocrat propaganda, obviously.

One whiney call to the media is a much more efficicent way to get your message out than delivering leaflets on a wet afternoon to people who don't particularly want them. Fair play.

If nobody turns up for the vigil it will because of intimidatiuon. If a large crowd turn up it will be because the locals are throwing off the yoke of intimidation. If a mid-size crowd turn up, that'll be the media covering the intimidation angle.

That's right Barney, have a go at a bunch of women upset because their brother was gutted in a pub (the nerve of them, leaflets! have ever a people suffered more in 800 years than having leaflets thrust at them?).

Gosh wasn't it terribly boring having to affect shame about all that McCartney nonsense (got up by the West Brit securocrat press for their on ends) for as long as you had to? Good to see SF have recovered their nerve.

Karl,

You're very quick to jump to conclusions which may explain your willingness to believe so thoroughly in the latest McCartney whine. Where did you get the idea that I represent a political party?
The McCartneys have every right to be upset but that doesen't make them any more or less plausible that anyone else. This latest accusation of intimidation smacks of desperation and an under-imaginative flair for self publicity.

"The McCartneys have every right to be upset but that doesen't make them any more or less plausible that anyone else. This latest accusation of intimidation smacks of desperation and an under-imaginative flair for self publicity. "

They are doing what many before them did ( e.g. Betty Williams etc.) they are self-destructing. They handled this as badly as the IRA did- and when the sisters finally came out on the side of the PSNI declaring they were doing a good job- well, the rest will be history. The Short Strand has a history and these women quickly forgot that and that will add to their downfall. Who is managing them from behnd the scenes? Only the SDLP can fail like this.

This was a chance for the SDLP to really have a go and Sinn Fein IRA, but once again an opportunity missed again.
I believe sisters[whichever one] should have ran for election. It would have kept the media spotlight on them.
They have stepped out of the limelight.
Seems to me they are trying to increase media coverage by blowing up what was probably nothing more than being heckled by a dozen disgruntled provos.
But fair play to them , they have as much right to seek justice as anyone else whichever way they want.

Barney - who do you think we should beleive - the McCartneys or SF.

Good to know that Sinn Fein are not amused one little bit at the McCartney sisters and Bridgeen Hagan.

It's the one issue that has put them in their place for the last few months.

Does anyone know when/where this planned vigil is?

queens_unionist said:
> probably nothing more than
> being heckled by a dozen disgruntled provos.

That seems like pretty serious intimidation to me.

DCB,
"Barney - who do you think we should beleive - the McCartneys or SF"

If only life was so simple. Sadly it is necesssary to retain a little scepticism regardless of the source. In this case the McCartneys have run to the media with the same old same old. Feel free to believe them if you like but a little evidence (that awkward word again!!) would be nice.
I'm not aware of SF's views on this particular 'incident', perhaps you could provide a link?

Barney is right. The McCartney women should make sure to carry digital cameras and video equipment with them at all times. Then we could believe them, if we could be sure the tapes weren't doctored.

It is highly unusual that the men accused of being involved in a murder and their families would harass the victims family as they attempted to seek justice. That never happens here and certainly not in a place like the Short Strand.

I think the McCartneys are just seeking attention. Time will tell if they acquire the cameras or not. And who will pay for the equipment if they do? Someone with an anti-Sinn Fein agenda most likely.

barney, even though you make a good point about evidence, you can't deny that it's a plausible story. The elements of the republican movement that are knee deep in this shameful coverup and the offer of vigilante "justice" wouldn't have any problem in intimidating these women.

I see that others have tried to bring in the SDLP into this argument. I remember the fuss over whether or not the SDLP were helping the McCartney's and Hagan with their trip to the US. Where was SF's support? Shouldn't SF have paid for that trip? SF were happy to invite them to the Ard Fheis but couldn't find a few quid to pay for the flight?

And what of the SDLP's help? Can you think of any scenario where they wouldn't have been criticized? Whether they helped or not, publicly or not, some Shinner would be quick to criticize.

Do any of you wise guys who normally would'nt give a toss about a catholic from the short strand being murdered(if it had been by security forces of loyalists in collusion with the RUC/FRU) even allow the possibility to enter your heads that the McCartney sisters may not be as popular in their own community as they are in the newsrooms of the media? It might be a welcome opportunity to look at things from a fresh perspective, ie their campaign was hijacked by McIntyre and the stoops and was over-exposed...swanning around Washington in limos and saying the PSNI are doing a great job are sure-fire ways to irritate your neighbours, especially when you and your siblings were never very well liked in the first place for a wide variety of reasons.

Levitas is right. One thing you should never do, especially after your brother has been gutted like a fish in a public alley, is annoy your neighbours. The cheek of these women. They really should check themselves and all of you people riding on the anti-republican bandwagon should be ashamed of yourselves. You know better!

Do any of you wise guys who normally would'nt give a toss about a catholic from the short strand being murdered(if it had been by security forces of loyalists in collusion with the RUC/FRU) even allow the possibility to enter your heads that the McCartney sisters may not be as popular in their own community as they are in the newsrooms of the media

Popularity has nothing to do with it. And even if every other member of their community thinks something doesn't necessarily make it right. The community who threw bags of piss at 4 year old girls on their way to school think they were right too. Its Group-think, due to isolation from outside influence. It may have been a strength in the troubles when it manifested itself as solidarity, but it will only do harm in peace time. And it is really disappointing to see it coming from the Short Strand with all the sideshows about the SDLP involvemment, American trips and the media. Anyone who thinks that these things are relevant while the killers are free is just another sponge soaking up what ever is fashionable in the group-thinking.

Why aren't the people who killed McCartney being heckled and intimidated by an angry mob? Shouldn't that be the priority for the mob?

OC,

The controversy regarding the SDLP's financial and PR assistance centered on its secretive nature. Both parties denied it existed and both paraties were made to a look a little shifty when the truth came out. If the SDLP, or anybody else want to help then fair enough. But it was a mistake to deny it.

Occasional commenter,
"Does anyone know when/where this planned vigil is?"

It will be held on Sunday outside Magennis's pub.

The McCartney sisters are also having a rally in Dublin under the slogan "Justice for Robert" before May 5.

Also Paula McCartney, one of Robert's sisters, said that the family was told "on good authority" that two men implicated in McCartney's death were prepared to admit their involvement but only on the basis that they could say they were obeying a formal IRA order to kill Mr McCartney.

Anyone know about this?

"Also Paula McCartney, one of Robert's sisters, said that the family was told "on good authority" that two men implicated in McCartney's death were prepared to admit their involvement but only on the basis that they could say they were obeying a formal IRA order to kill Mr McCartney.

Anyone know about this?"

It's from the Sindo so it's true. I think the "good authority" is also from the Sindo so the source is impeccable.

Thanks George, do you know what time on Sunday? It's a pity that the media (BBC anyway) don't report these details when they're reporting on vigil/rally related stories.

barney, I agree that it was stupid politically to get caught doing it secretly. But can you honestly say that SF wouldn't have criticized if the help was given publicly? SF and the DUP are always banging on about the work they do for their constituents, but would SF have allowed the SDLP to help

"but would SF have allowed the SDLP to help"

How could SF stop them? What we now know is that the McCartneys and the SDLP were caught out deceiving the very people they claimed were being intimidated. Hardly the best move in what is, essentially, a badly managed PR campaign.

Occassional Commenter,
as it's a vigil I would assume it's an all day and/or an all night thing. I haven't heard any time myself.

Don't know about Belfast but I don't think they'll get a big turnout for the Dublin rally.

"Don't know about Belfast but I don't think they'll get a big turnout for the Dublin rally."

They should hold it in D4 where the residents have long held strong empathetic feelings for the beleagured Short Strand. A local TD could even bring them up to speed on his latest Shinners-under-the-bed fantasy.

Ringo

"Why aren't the people who killed McCartney being heckled and intimidated by an angry mob? Shouldn't that be the priority for the mob?"

It is a well known psychological phenomenon that put down people fear the most violent among them. The mob fear the killers but don't fear the sisters.

Thus too the success of the Sinn Fein strategy - to put down their own people and make them fear them. That makes it more likely that they'll vote Sinn Fein and despise the SDLP.

I'm certainly no expert and know nobody from the Short Strand area but maybe, just maybe, they've had enough of the media telling tales about how they have turned against the republican movement and all that blah blah blah, and watching the sisters allowing themselves to become the political stick anyone can use to beat republicans with !

So 12 children stopped these women handing out leaflets. I dont think anyone is fooled by them anymore. They want money and fame from their brothers tragic death.£250000 apparently from Euro MEPS.

People can see them for what they are. Interesting that nothing ever came out in the media about the thug that Robert was. In all likelihood their campaign will cost SF their seat in Pottinger with Belfast City Council returning to Unionist control. O'Donnell scraped the last seat by 30 0dd votes.

It is time to draw an end to this saga. Let the police do their investigation. Stop giving them publicity. There are countless far more innocent victims seeking justice.

So 12 children stopped these women handing out leaflets. I dont think anyone is fooled by them anymore. They want money and fame from their brothers tragic death.£250000 apparently from Euro MEPS.

People can see them for what they are. Interesting that nothing ever came out in the media about the thug that Robert was. In all likelihood their campaign will cost SF their seat in Pottinger with Belfast City Council returning to Unionist control. O'Donnell scraped the last seat by 30 0dd votes.

It is time to draw an end to this saga. Let the police do their investigation. Stop giving them publicity. There are countless far more innocent victims seeking justice.

Someone ought to direct Snapper to Peter's post, he was asking about the smear campaign against the sisters.

I believe that the Mc Cartneys should be allowed to say what they want, where and when they want. They should be allowed to make all the allegations that they want without question.
The media should , as before, carry whatever version of whatever incident the Mc Cartneys put forward without remit to any other outlet.

As we know from Slugger to question, even mildly, the version of the world according to the sisters et al makes you a provo () fill in brackets as appropriate.

This might not be playing the ball but Peter you are a complete and total arsehole. Ban that man.

Is "peter" our friend who was warned off for using the Ulsterman sockpuppet ?

The Mc Cartney's are entitled to justice- I see nobody denying that. NOBODY! But they went the wrong way when they spoke in praise of the PSNI(RUC) and lied about or at very best misled everyone about their SDLP sponsored Washington visit.
It is a FACT that the Republican people of Short Strand and wider are sick and tired of this whole debacle- and more so fed up with the sisters themselves. It has nothing to do with their quest for justice regarding the murder, but they have alienated the very people they needed behind them. Because when all is said and done, the Mc Cartney sisters ARE left holding their fliers and those who used them for their own political purposes have left them high and dry to electioneer.

The argument is either that they have alienated the community and consequently harmed their cause or that the community is fully supportive of the campaign to bring the perpeatrators to justice. It appears to be that both arguments cannot simulataneously be true can they?

kitty,

The people who turned on the McCartneys are a disgrace. The McCartneys are better off without people like that.

"If People cannot see this for what it is"

Oh but we can Peter, we can

Peter

Ogra Sinn Fein, I presume?

You are one very dangerous individual. Eventually you'll meet your match and the bitterness will all come out! I wouldn't like to be you.

From John O'Connell - "Thus too the success of the Sinn Fein strategy - to put down their own people and make them fear them. That makes it more likely that they'll vote Sinn Fein and despise the SDLP."

Quite simply the most deranged reasoning I have ever read to explain SF vote. It is quite disturbing to believe this.

From John O'Connell - "Thus too the success of the Sinn Fein strategy - to put down their own people and make them fear them. That makes it more likely that they'll vote Sinn Fein and despise the SDLP."

Quite simply the most deranged reasoning I have ever read to explain SF vote. It is quite disturbing to believe this.

hensons I agree totally but if you knew JoC you would understand this reasoning. This is another one of the deluded theories that keep coming out of Bayview Terrace. Someday JoC and othres will realise that people vote for Sinn Fein because they get effective representation and sound political leadership.

"Someday JoC and othres (sic) will realise that people vote for Sinn Fein because they get effective representation and sound political leadership."

Yeah and they won't get shot in the kneecaps either. What's this "sound political leadership" by the way? A 'green paper' on Irish unity? Gee that's great!

I find it almost heartbreaking to believe that people who claim to be Irish Republicans, would condemn publicly people who have had their brother murdered by three renegade IRA members, and who in the process have totally brought the IRA into disrepute. More I find it a disgrace that these killers are still walking the streets of the home area of the murdered man with complete confidence. Indeed these killers it seems had enough confidence to have played a role in harassing these women yesterday. Thus any rational person can only conclude they are doing so with either the approval of the senior leadership of the PIRA, or if not, the killers clearly do not think this leadership has the balls to discipline them properly.

Those who claim to be Republicans and continuously condemn these women are doing no favours to republicanism, for indirectly they are aligning themselves with scum.

Daithio,
You seem to be saying the McCartneys should cease talking to the media, OK, what should they be doing, how can they keep their campaign alive without working with the media? Can you give me an example of any campaign which demanded justice for someone that did not work with the media? Or should the just accept it is the right of out of control IRA members to kill people who live in the Short Strand; and once the leadership of that organisation tells them they have disciplined those responsible they should give up all thought of justice.

If all those who claimed to be republicans spent their energy demanding the PRM leadership sorted this thing out, instead of continuously attacking the McCartneys, then they would be doing something constructive. Instead we get this nonsense. For Christ sake, if Irish Republicanism is not about fighting injustices and righting wrongs, what the f--- is it about. There is more to republicanism than stuffing ballot boxes every three or four years, as important as this has become, things like values, principles and service!

Regards to all.

Well said Mick.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!

So Mick wants to know what Irish Republicanism is all about?
Gerry and SF want an 'Ireland of Equals', which is 'Independent' and a '32 County Socialist Republic.' What could that mean? Perhaps Gerry's admiration for Cuba's Fidel Castro can give us a clue. SF would apparently like capitalism to be removed from Ireland, resulting in a glorious worker's utopia, free from the shackles of British or EU money.
Some political parties in the south have abruptly woken up to this scenario, but has anyone else? Do the voters, north and south, realise that they are handing their democratic vote to a party hellbent on destroying democracy itself? Never mind that shooting a mother of ten in the head or killing Garda officers isn't a crime -- these people are handing a mandate to a party who want to plunge Ireland back into poverty and isolation.
The failed Marxist models of Cuba, USSR and North Korea tell us all we need to know about SF ideology.
It's about time Mr.Adams and his chums told us what his party's longterm aspirations really are.

Mick Hall

I was at the SF Ard Fheis and joined in the rapturous show of solidarity with the sisters who decided to attend. All right minded republicans want justice for the family of Mr. McCartney and are sickened by his murder regardless of the exact events in Magennis's Bar.

Where people take exception is when the sisters turn against their own community (the vast majority of which supported them originally) and do so because of outside influences. They just became a part of the general demonisation and criminalisation of the wider republican movement.

Let's put things in perspective Mick, there was no media frenzy surrounding many other killings in Ireland, and why ? Because it disn't suit those with a certain agenda.

When they McCartney famly cease to be useful to these people then what ?

Daitho, I'm struggling to follow the reasoning of your post.

"Where people take exception is when the sisters turn against their own community and do so because of outside influences." How have they turned against they're community? by rejecting SF/IRA justice? Does it then follow that SF/IRA are the only source of justice available to them?

Also I take it you mean SF/IRA when you say "wider republican movement"

The point about media frenzy is an interesting one, the SF/IRA are very apt at creating a media frenzy around certain deaths to further it's own agenda, this one doesn't fit so it's should be airbrushed out?

Sadly one thing that is lacking from both sides is any sort of perspective.

I know there is a danger of a hierarchy of victims here with Protestants/Unionists/Loyalists never seeming to get the same publicity and exposure in their campaigns for justice, but I have to say I support the McCartney sisters and Bridgeen Hagans in their crusade for justice.

I have to add that I would not be held responsible for my actions if any Provo-supporting scumbags on the street threatened me and my family, or if the wife of a Sinn Fein/IRA member came to my door threatening me and telling me I was "being put out" of my own home!

They have acted with dignity throughout, flying in the face of adversity and without even having a chance to mourn their dead relative, so as a member of the Loyalist community of Ulster I salute them!

The people who turned on the McCartneys are a disgrace. The McCartneys are better off without people like that.
Agreed. Completely.
Frankly, I'm ahsamed to share the same species, let alone the same religion as Peter and DaithiO and others trying to smear these women. Trying to someone held to account for their brother's murder through the law? How dare they!? For shame! Gosh, my cousin's sister's friend's uncle's nephew's buddy got stabbed thirty-two years ago, and you don't see *me* complaining.
I despair. I really do.

anyone want to know whats really going on in the short strand ?????????

anyone????????????

The swell of public support for the McCartney's is rapidly dwindling. Just been reading the latest Andersonstown News who have certainly changed their tone over the last few weeks. Scarey stuff