Unfortunately O'Dowd is right - by March 18th the little green tie day on Capitol Hill is over. When the photo ops are over, Irish politics will be returned to the British and Irish governments.

Jeez, the Secretary of State is in Pakistan for St Paddy's day.

Who gives a fiddler's toss where the pro-consul is today?

It is a simple progression that those in the media who are flogging this story and using the family will move on. Likewise those in goverment will start talking politics in the near future However, it will not detract from the integrity of the case put forward Mc Cartneys.

Who gives a fiddler's toss where the pro-consul is today?

Oh I forgot, I never have been successful in explaining the workings of washington dc particularly on March 17th to an irish person. They have always told me how it is. Strange that.

Pat

It is a simple progression that those in the media who are flogging this story and using the family will move on.

To quote the family: 'we are not being manipulated by anyone.'

Show some respect.

IJP,

I suspect that neither the family or indeed yourself can vouch for the bona fides of all the media in this case.

Respect has nothing to do with it.

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. Mar 17, 2005 — Shackled and clad in leg irons, Scott Peterson was taken to San Quentin State Prison early Thursday after being sentenced to die for murdering his pregnant wife, Laci, and her unborn fetus.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=589467&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

This is what Americans are interested in, what is happening on there own doorstep.

Yes I bet. No doubt the McCartneys will return from the USA clad in fur coats with a good few dollars in their coffers.

The hypocrisy of the whole thing is nauseating.McCartney was a thug and this has failed to be spoken off. He was part of that criminality that everyone is condemning.

Why it took the six of them to go to the USA is beyond me?. Anyway move on. McCartney will not be the last person ever killed.

God Save The Queen.

Ulsterman

If it were true that he was and I quote a 'thug' does that justify in any way his murder or the subsequent events?

The thing most nauseating is that you are not allowing the McCartney family to seek justice without being condemed for it. One final thing however is that you are right, he will unfortunately, not be the last person killed espically when their are attitudes like yours but if the actions of the McCartney family can help reduce the number of murders then their efforts must be applauded.

Is it really a surprise that Northern Ireland is not getting the same attention in the media as it did in the past. The US is at war in Iraq, there is a huge celebrety trial in progress and then you have the day to day breaking news. That the McCartneys were able to get so much attention is a remarkable achievement.

America should have no involvement in finding a solution, but rather simply support the option that has the support of the biggest number of people in N.I. The last thing we need is another simplistic interferer like Clinton.

How going to the Whitehouse will advance their cause is beyond me?.Did all six of them have to go on this free holiday?. If they thought so much of their brother should they not be mourning.

Justice in Ulster is a funny word. The GFA let a load of thugs and murderers out of prison. Yes, I agree even a thug has the right to justice but given the history here I doubt they will get it.To convict someone there must be evidence and from what i read in the press there has been so much lies told about this case it is hard to decipher the truth.

The McCartneys bank account at the end of this will be healthier. SF will no doubt suffer a loss of votes both north and south because of it. However I doubt that anyone will ever serve time for the murder.

God Save The Queen.

It won't be old news if they run in the upcoming elections and it could become one of the defining issues of the election. Hence the McGuinnes threat and Adams attempts at smears.

And just what constituency can you see them standing in are better still actually winning?.

In thase case it really isn't about the winning, it's about the taking part. SF will be campaigning throughout NI against the backdrop of every single health warning these women get

If they run in Pottinger DEA a council seat is not impossible. If the run at Westminster they won't win but it keeps up the public profile and maintains pressure on the republican movement.

They would make very good members of any council. The sisters have been politicised in the best seennse of the word. When their campaign is over I'd like to see them continue to make a contributiion.

To be perfectly honest I'd like to see them in Sinn Fein but if that is impossible then the SDLP should get them on board. It could help the lose the "Student Union" image they have.

I'd agree with fair_deal. If one of them runs in Pottinger they could well inflict enough electoral damage to ensure Sinn Fein dont retain their seat there. After all, Joe the Builder isn't running there after (for obvious reasons) and that combined with a challenge from one of the McCartney's could mean the Shinners lose the seat.

If they do decide to run in the Westminster election in the Belfast Constituencies no-one expects them to sweep to victory, but certainly they will get a lot of coverage in the campaign if they do and it will genereate a lot of interest to see just how many votes they take away from both Sinn Fein and the SDLP. Its unlikely they will claim Gerry's scalp and it probably wont have much effect on the outcome in North Belfast or East Belfast either, but the whole saga could see the effects played out most in South Belfast which already was an interesting contest without that extra factor thrown in.

Ulsterman,
one of these days me and you are going to have a serious disagreement

The McCartney holiday in Washington was interesting in that it showed the lack of any mourning among these six slappers.

What on earth was the aim of it. I am sure George Bush could not care less about the death in a pub fight of a man thousands of miles away. I am sure the dossier the sisters presented him along with the bowl of shamrock given by the Irish Prime minister is now in the bin.

What next for the McCartneys?.A holiday junket to Rome to see the Pope. Do any of these women work or are they just typical benefit loving papists?.

God Save The Queen.

Ulsterman,

Consider that a yellow card! You've been considerable lattitude up to now, so you can also consider it a very short distance to the next carding!

You are clearly a bright intelligent and (occasionally at least) well researched bloke. Don't blow for the sake of poor taste humour!

If the run for Westminster their ability to hog the media will be seriously restricted because once the election is called they will be trated as independents and get very little airplay due to the Representation of the People Act.

What constituency if they run against Gerry Adams they will get well beat and will turn many republicans off their case. South Belfast were the crime took place Alasdair Mc Donnell will have to be worked with because he believes he has a chance an if he becomes an MP he sees himself as the next leader of the SDLP. My best advice would be stand in South Belfast SF and the SDLP give them a free run and they have a chance.

The sisters should stand on a Justice ticket, because in the absence of confidence in the PSNI + intimidation from IRA/SF, and the rejection of IRA justice! where else can ordinary families go to pursue their legal right to justice.
They will be a thorn in the side to SF and that is necessary at the moment as Gerry is bleating out the same old crap about "we will not be criminalised"

They should stand for election, if that is what they want to do. It would be a way of asking them a few questions about the hypocricy that has started to enter their campaign.

Brian they will be more of a thorn in the side of the SDLP. Since this campaign started we have only on piece of evidence to look at to see is it damaging SF and last Friday in Meath we have seen its not damaging SF were it counts on the doorsteps. The SDLP are in a very difficult position in one hand they fully support the family but on the other they need to rebuild their party and to allow their base to vote someone else might prove difficult to get them back. Obviously the SDLP would like to damage SF over this issue but can they risk losing their own base. The SDLP will be under pressure to stand aside and let them run. The McCartneys in elections will damage the SDLP more than SF.

Respect has nothing to do with it.

Posted by: Pat Mc Larnon

Pat on a previous thread you refered to McCartney's companion on the evening of his death as "worthless", respect has everything to do with it, if the IRA and Sinn Fein members in the bar had shown respect for a persons right to life the whole sorry mess would never have happened, respect is central

alex s,

On the previous thread I stated that in view of the growing criminal record of McCartneys companion a jury may reject anything he had to say judging his character as worthless. A fair assumption to make. In certain cases health warnings are attached to the version of events given by criminals.

My intervention in this thread is to challenge the view by the Mc Cartneys and IJP that they are not being used by anyone. I contend they are and are being used by a large section of the press who have a historical record of attacking republicans.

Respect has nothing to do with it.

The This week political show on BBC said the same last night. St. Patrick's day is the high water mark for the McCartney campaign or as the BBC said to Irish music:

"From wendy house to White House."

Whatever that is supposed to mean. They even managed to drag up the 85-year-old "Southern Ireland" chestnut too. I suppose it was St. Patrick's day and they were feeling all Oirish.

Pat

The family quite clearly said nobody was using it.

By claiming people are, you are accusing the family of lying.

Or perhaps you'd like to reveal SF's new policy of media censorship - the media should express no view except SF's...?

IJP,

please don't descend into silliness. As stated earlier, 'my intervention in this thread is to challenge the view by the Mc Cartneys and IJP that they are not being used by anyone. I contend they are and are being used by a large section of the press who have a historical record of attacking republicans.'

You cannot vouch for the intentions of the media pack and neither can the Mc Cartneys. Lies don't come into it just naivety.

As for the garbage on censorship write a little letter and send it to Connolly House, Andersonstown Rd.

The title of this thread reads the McCartneys will be old news by Friday and it seems as this prohecy has come true I've just watched Newsline on BBCNI and not one mention of the Mc Cartneys. I am sure we have not heard the last of this case and quite rightly so but their long term impact in the US is I believe quite minimal. Gerry Adams, Mark Durkan, David Trimble and Ian Paisley will all be in Washington again but will the Mc Cartneys.

At the end of all this the Union is no doubt strengthened.The SF vote will in May be well down.
That can only be for the good. O'Donnells SF seat is the last of seven seats in his ward. His seat is being heavily targeted by the DUP. I doubt very much even before the McCartney saga that he would have retained it.

This seat is extremely important to Unionists because when it is won back the capital city will once again be under Unionist control.

God Save The Queen.

Pat

Yes, and your contention is rubbish.

The IRA supports shooting without trial as a means of justice, and SF supports the IRA. Any decent person, on the other hand, supports trial by independent judiciary.

SF is well out of order. You seem to have a problem with people in the media being free to make that point.

Pat

I didn't hear to many SF complaints when Gerry Adams was being feted by the US media during his first visit.

Was he being used by the media when they carried his message to the US public or was he using them?

Were the McCartney sisters being used by the media when they carried their message to the US public or were they using them?

IJP,

are you vouching for ALL the media in this case? I think not. Sections of the media have their own agenda and are running with it. Not a problem for me, but to deny it is fantasy land.

vespasian,

there is a curiosity side of the reporting of bothe the Adams visits and the Mc Cartney trail. All sides use each other. Did you not realise that?

Pat

Your 2 quotes.....

'I contend they are and are being used by a large section of the press who have a historical record of attacking republicans.'

'there is a curiosity side of the reporting of bothe the Adams visits and the Mc Cartney trail. All sides use each other. Did you not realise that?'

Then what was the purpose of the first comment if everyone already knows it?.............and the press in the US did not have a habit of attacking republicans until now, the reverse in fact.

All sides use each other. Did you not realise that?

This may actually be true did anyone know that the "SDLP sent their largest team ever" to the USA for St Patricks Day. Everyone knows that Gerry Adams was in the US but the people of Derry believe that Durkan has gone absent without leave.

and the press in the US did not have a habit of attacking republicans until now, the reverse in fact.

Completely wrong. 99.99% of the mainstream US media are fully pro-britain on anything regarding Ireland.

Only place you will get a chance of another opinion would be low-circulation, local region, Irish-American publications such as Irish-Voice, Irish-Echo etc

Pat

I never denied. But you seem to have a problem specifically with the media that expose SF, not the media that support it.

No one is manipulating the McCartneys, the McCartneys themselves said so. People are exposing SF's sickening hypocrisy, as is their right.

IJP

No one is manipulating the McCartneys, the McCartneys themselves said so.

There is a logical flaw in that statement. Just because you think you are not being manipulated doesn't mean you're not.

A lot of victims families who have been looking for justice for many years might wonder what happened to their White House innvitation. It is a fact that the McCartney campagin suits the political agenda of those opposed to Sinn Fein.

So doors are open to them that remain closed to others.

Henry,

I suspect the reverse is true, the the agenda of those oppsed to SF suits the McCartneys. They don't strike me as innocents abroad by any means.

Jimmy

Let me make it clear that they are not to be faulted for the fact that Prime Ministers and Presidents have taken up their case.

But those guys don't take up a case unless it is to advance their own agenda.

But that's life and no point in Sinn Fein whinging about it.

As long as the IRA are active that is going to happen.

I don't disagree, but I don't understand why you have difficulty with the idea they make the same calculation themselves. Both SF and their enemies seem to be under the impression they are anti-SF crusaders. Would that were so. The fact that they turned up at the Ard Fheis indicates to me that they are happy to return to the fold if they get what they want.

Regarding march 18, please be sure to check today's Washington Post.

If any newspaper is going to carry news relevant to capitol hill and/or washington DC, this is it.

The headline as I read it is the NCAA basketball and the right to die case in Florida. (Afternoon of Friday 18th March).

Malachy

Can you provide evidence the the mainstream US press is 99.99% pro British on anything regarding Ireland.

A quick check of (for example) the New York Times and Washingtom Post archives may reveal positive articles about SF and GA.

A quick check of (for example) the New York Times and Washingtom Post archives may reveal positive articles about SF and GA.

Yes I'm sure that since the GFA, newspapers have been positive towards Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams as have the British government.

Before the GFA, as now, with regard to anything Irish, 99.99% of US newspapers were/are pro-britain

To suggest that the US media is pro-Irish-Republican is probably a result of seeing the USA through the Irish media which gets very convoluted indeed.

Malachy

Why do you think that is?

vespasian,

'Then what was the purpose of the first comment if everyone already knows it'

What does that mean?

'the press in the US did not have a habit of attacking republicans until now, the reverse in fact.'

Not true.

IJP

'I never denied.'

Good to know it, i thought you hadn't.

'But you seem to have a problem specifically with the media that expose SF, not the media that support it.'

Simply not true as I stated earlier I don't have a problem with the manipulation just a problem with people who can't spot the obvious.

'No one is manipulating the McCartneys, the McCartneys themselves said so. People are exposing SF's sickening hypocrisy, as is their right.'

Quite clealry I believe you are wrong and as Henry has stated just because people say they aren't being exploited doesn't mean to say they aren't. How can they possibly vouch for the bona fides of the people in the circus surrounding them?

Just what 'sickening hypocricy' is being exposed. On closer scrutingy it is the Mc Cartneys hypocricy that is being exposed.

Vespasian, I don't agree with Malachy on a lot of things but on this one he is right - the US media are the same as most of the British media when it comes to their position on what goes on in this country. You'll occasionally find pro-SF articles in any newspaper you care to pick up.

Pat

On closer scrutingy it is the Mc Cartneys hypocricy that is being exposed.

The SF demonization of an innocent man's grieving family in their quest for justice has started.

Also sickening.

Perhaps you'd like to expand on what you mean...

PMcL

Your 2 quotes.....

'I contend they are and are being used by a large section of the press who have a historical record of attacking republicans.'

'there is a curiosity side of the reporting of bothe the Adams visits and the Mc Cartney trail. All sides use each other. Did you not realise that?'

Let me explain in simple terms:-

If all sides use each other then ipso facto the McCartney sisters are being used by the press and are using them, so your 1st comment is therefore completely irrelevant as the sisters are then no different from anyone else.

You seemed to be trying to say that they were being used by the press in a way that no one else was.

Its quite clear that the McCartney's will fade into the background in the coming weeks, but I doubt if they will go away as such, they, the Northern Bank, and more importantly the money laundering enquirey in the South have the potential to 'dog' Sinn Fein for years.

It wouldn't be possible for the McCartney murder to be used against the provos if they hadn't committed in the first place. And if they couldn't avoid killing him, they could at least have admitted what they did and acted as honest brokers and handed over the killers before this mess had a chance to gather steam. They didn't do that - they tried to cover up the murder for ostensibly political reasons - and now they are complaining that the case is being politicized, like politicians are ever going to do anything other than politicize everything they are involved in.

The complaints about politicization are pretty straightforward. The Shinners think that if their armed wing kills somebody and then tries to cover it up, people should stay quiet about it in case they get used by unionism to damage republicans. In other words the political prestige of Sinn Fein against the unionists is more important than getting to the bottom of a murder.

vespasian,

'If all sides use each other then ipso facto the McCartney sisters are being used by the press and are using them, so your 1st comment is therefore completely irrelevant as the sisters are then no different from anyone else.'

No one stated they were different from anyone else. It is those who are stating that they aren't being used you shouild take that up with.

'You seemed to be trying to say that they were being used by the press in a way that no one else was.'

I didn't say that at all.

IJP

The SF demonization of an innocent man's grieving family in their quest for justice has started.

Also sickening.

Perhaps you'd like to expand on what you mean...

Not demonization at all, just getting facts out into the public domain.

Are you really sickened/

It's on another thread regarding their support for SF while their neighbour and Gerry Mc Cabe were being killed. Read it and let me know if you disagree with my analysis and why.