The vile hated being directed at these women through whisper campaigns and newspaper letters, correction trashpaper letters is disgusting both in content and verocity.

I don't know if many of sluggers contributors are aware of just how brutal and disgusting these vicious lies being peddled by republicans are but they include.

Lies that two were suspected of being police informers during the hunger strikes

Lies that one used to frequent palace barracks at night-time

Lies that they tried to wriggle their way into an old womans will

Lies that one of them was a prostitute

Lies that everybody in shortstrand despises the whole family

Lies that they were known shoplifters

Lies that two are known handbag thieves

The list is growing by the day in a republican inspired DEMONISATION campaign, you know that thing that Sinn Fein complained so bitterly about for years.

Could someone inform me of the difference as to why the Finucanes are honest, strong, resolute, republicans and the McCartneys are dishonest, weak, and anti-republican just for wanting the same thing, answers and justice.

Why were the McCartneys being used by politicians in Washington for political gain, but were not being used at the Sinn Fein conference in Dublin for the same thing.

Why does all the letters in the Any Trash News that start off in support of the McCartneys quicky taper off into a triade of support for Sinn Fein or a lesson of how foolish and anti-republican the McCartney family have been.

Your thoughts Pat ?

It's called "totalitarian tendencies" Devil.
Either you knuckle under it or, like the McCartney's, you stand up against it. This campaign of vilification is designed, for the most part, to deter any other brave souls from following the McCartney example.

The Finucane's should, without ifs, buts or maybes, publicly endorse the McCartney campaign for justice. That would help them no end.

Davros:

Let the Devil do his own dirty work! He's made his points extremely clearly and well. You seem to be trying to personalise them!

Reprimand accepted Mick. I won't argue with the referee, but I'll point out that it became personal when a certain poster used my name and location to try and threaten/intimidate.
Apologies to HSM.

The finucane family have been seeking justice from the British government for the last 15 years,unfortunetly they are still being hampered in this quest by Tony Blair and the Labour administration.
Perhaps if there had been a similar response of outrage from the media and commentators to this murder the Finucane family would have recieved the truth,long ago.

franc

That hardly addresses the idea of them giving public support to the McCartneys.

Jacko,

I agree if the Finucanes have a shred of decency about them at all they should come out in full support of the McCartney family.

Davros,

Don't buckle down to Mick he'll think your weak :-)

Mick,

Was that a compliment

Don't buckle down to Mick he'll think your weak :-)

He already knows I'm weak YSM !

Ivan Walton,

'Your thoughts Pat ?'

I think 'The Devil' is quite mad, he seems to have left out Cain and Abel, killing cock robin,and being on the grassy knoll.
I've never heard any of these allegations and I think 'the Devil' would have substantiating any of the trash put forward as comment.
Seems to be another of the angles I predicted a few days ago.

'Reprimand accepted Mick. I won't argue with the referee, but I'll point out that it became personal when a certain poster used my name and location to try and threaten/intimidate.'

Ivan i wouldn't waste my time threatening or intimidating anyone of your ilk. You started to get a little too personal and i simply identified you as a skulking coward ready to use anonymity to abuse and hurl insults. Good to see that i hit home.

Now if you want to curtail your behaviour i'm willing to debate any single point you care to make, but you must learn a bit of manners.

My oh my that guy McLarnon must work for the council as a binman,

saves it all up then dumps the rubbish on slugger

The Devil,

unsubstantiated rubbish is rubbish no matter how you try to dress it up.

jacko

It does however address the stark difference in the response of the media and others to the respective cases

My oh my that guy McLarnon must work for the council as a binman,

saves it all up then dumps the rubbish on slugger

Close but no cigar YSM.

Last warning Pat.

Sorry Mick, I don't like being threatened.

Handbags.

Chill, people.

My oh my that guy McLarnon must work for the council as a binman,

saves it all up then dumps the rubbish on slugger

Close but no cigar YSM.

Last warning Pat.

Sorry Mick, I don't like being threatened.

LOL!

Well Done to "the Devil..." (not) by purporting to be a supporter of the McCartney family you have just succeeded in ensuring that all these "vile rumours" which NO one I know had even heard about just got a good and detailed electronic airing, a very clever way of ensuring that the rumours really do take off!

On the other hand if you do support the courageous sisters you may not be quite aware (yet)... so I'm telling you, that you have just scored an own goal, do you have any idea how many people view this site?

How many will, as we all do, when provided with a bit of juicy gossip not muse...."outrageous but you never know , no smoke without fire and all that?"?

Perhaps the clue is in your nom-de-plume??...keep stoking the fires you rumour monger ye!

PMcL

'unsubstantiated rubbish is rubbish no matter how you try to dress it up.'

Strange, I put that point to you earlier on another thread about your posts!

One man's rubbish is another man's treasure it seems.

He's not the Devil. He's a very naughty boy.

At least some good has come out of all this.I'd hardly think there would be another murder in the near distant future.

I'd hardly think there would be another murder in the near distant future.

I wouldn't be sure of that Anna. Violent people and drink are a bad combination.

I know that Davros,but this time this case has attracted world attention.I tried saying as much as I could on another site,but I was continually put down,and I gave up trying.

Anna, off the top of my head i can think of at least two murders that have occurred in the North since that of Robert McCartney, involving drink or drugs.

Neither commanded the attention of Robert McCartney's murder because neither provided the opportunity to bash Republicans.

Neither commanded the attention of Robert McCartney's murder because neither provided the opportunity to bash Republicans.

Come now DT - were there members of a mainstream party involved in any way in these other two tragedies ?

You may know of two more murders,but that does not excuse the IRAs activities of recent times.I'm not saying all of them,but I've got animals who have got more feelings than some of them.

DerryTerry
Why not tell us the inside story on Bart the Butcher's activities - that would answer you better than trying to deflect from the Mccartney case.

If Gerry Adams had been invited to the White House by George Bush,do you think he would have said,"No thank you,I cannot attend"

Davros,
Are you suggesting that these murders were less newsworthy, less horrific or less brutal than that of Robert McCartney's because of the political affiliation of the murderers?

It is the case that Robert McCartney's murder has recieved the attention it has recieved because the narrative, a nationalist murdered by people associated with Republicanism, coincided with wider political and media agendas.

It is sad that when a different story captures attention the McCartneys, like so many families before them, will be dropped liked yesterdays news by both the media and politicians.

Jacko,
Could you rephrase that so that it actually makes sense?

As to your repeated use of Bart the Butcher, have you looked at any of the facts concerning DeDe McGinley's death or the death of Mark Robinson?

You migh also want to take a look at the thread titled, IRA should publish their inquiry. Then again, you might not.

Are you suggesting that these murders were less newsworthy, less horrific or less brutal than that of Robert McCartney's because of the political affiliation of the murderers?

In the context of the Northern Bank Robbery and the faltering peace process ? Obviously the murders would be less newsworthy if there was no political connection. Next you'll be saying that the murder of Enid Bloggs in Salford (fictitious for illustration) was as newsworthy as the murder of President Kennedy!

It is sad that when a different story captures attention the McCartneys, like so many families before them, will be dropped liked yesterdays news by both the media and politicians.

That was obviously Gerry and Co's hope - which is why it took weeks for him to respond. No sign of it going away, you know. Like the disappeared, these murders will haunt the RM.

Davros,

that sounds like wishful thinking to me..

Time will tell CGA. One things for sure - there'll be no legal trickery or pulling the wool over the eyes of the ultimate Judge we all face ;)

To The Devil

What's your source for these allegations?

Him being the Devil, I imagine it's the (grape)vine.

Gonzo

He made reference to documentary evidence of some description. To which sources in particular is he referring?

And additionally, who collated these allegations?

Was it himself? And if so, from what sources?

I doubt if they're genuine.

To Gonzo

Indeed. That's why the process of collation and how The Devil came upon these allegations is so interesting.

Where did he get them from?

He probably made them up.

To Gonzo:

Looks like it.

Of course, making stuff up in politics is quite common in Britain, Ireland, the USA and everywhere else.

I sometimes wonder though if the Northern polity is robust enough for that rather cavalier attitude towards political truth you get everywhere else. It seems to me that in Northern Ireland we're dealing with fundamental constitutional disagreements which isn't the case elsewhere. Their politicking doesn't bring the whole house crashing down everytime, whereas ours often does.

Dunno how you might deal with it, but perhaps it's worth pondering.

There's also the problem of a lack of any consensual civil society in Northern Ireland, but let's not run before we can walk.

Their politicking doesn't bring the whole house crashing down everytime, whereas ours often does.

That's why some advocate a voluntary coalition - it's inherently stable as a form of Government.

See the Dail, the Scottish Parliament and many others for further details.

If I was a cynic, I'd say that the vetoes demanded by both 'sides' indicate an unwillingness to take ownership of a stable form of government here.

Mick, How did Pat find out Davros's real identity?

Last comment, I swear!

To Gonzo:

I wouldn't disagree that voluntary coalition is the more usual democratic approach in stable societies. But surely the whole point of the GFA was to impose stability by ensuring that all parties with a certain vote had ministers in government. The GFA certainly isn't democratic in terms of parties making their own arrangements. But that's the price we pay for not having been able to work together voluntarily in the past.

It is ironic though that even though the SDLP leadership haven't yet agreed to voluntary coalition, they're effectively precluded from doing so by the GFA itself.

Gonzo,
I don't have to make anything up, there's enough garbage being thrown at the McCartneys in stinking whispering campaigns to overflow a sewerage works.......

Now can anyone tell me why the Finucane centre have not come out in public support for the McCartney family

I suspect probably for the same reason that the McCartneys have not come out in support of the Finucanes.

Devil

It must be because they consider the activities of the provos to be legitimate, irrespective of what those activities amount to.
I suppose, from their perspective, they support human rights but are very selective in their interpretation of what constitutes a human being.

It is ironic though that even though the SDLP leadership haven't yet agreed to voluntary coalition, they're effectively precluded from doing so by the GFA itself.

In a sense. If the SoS laid down an exclusion order (dirty words, I know), we'd have a de facto voluntary coalition. The exclusion would last 6 months or a year, and afterwards we could have a fully inclusive government again.

Course, the odds of SF sitting on the sidelines for a few months for the greater good long-term are precisely zero.

Instead of going into talks after the summer, SF could have been returning to Government. But hey, them's the breaks.

To Gonzo:

The real resolution though is not exclusion, but working together. We shouldn't underestimate the fact that Unionist policy has been to a large extent predicated on not being seen to be working together with SF, even though they do so on councils and committees etc.

So whatever about SF's transgressions it's not all as one-sided as it's presented.

And I suppose there is a question too about just how genuine SF actually are. Are their and the IRA's transgressions pure carelessness or are they designed to make things even more difficult for Unionism?

But whatever about any of that speculation, the only real resolution is in working together and it's not unreasonable to be suspicious when the focus moves away from that.