Sky News reports that a member of Sinn Fein was arrested:

ARRESTS OVER BANK RAID

Seven people have been arrested over the £26m Northern Bank raid in Ireland, it has been reported.

The heist at the bank in Belfast has had a devastating effect on the peace process as militant group the IRA has been blamed for being behind the crime.

Police raided a property near the southwest city of Cork in the Irish Republic and found at least £60,000 including notes in the Northern Bank's own brand.

They could not immediately confirm whether the money matched records of the notes stolen.

The crime represented an apparent breakthrough in months of police work to identify the gang responsible for the crime - the biggest raid in history.

Police initially said they arrested three men and a woman.

One was a member of Sinn Fein but was not identified by name.

Sinn Fein declined to comment but had previously has stressed it believes IRA denials of involvement in the robbery.

Those arrested are being interviewed at police stations in the Cork area.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1171411,00.html

these reports can't be true and quite clearly are the work of securocrat agents working inside rte, the irish times and the bbc who are intent on helping fianna fail stave off sinn fein's electoral challenge and wish to undermine the peace process...anyone who repeats this story or gives it any credence is also an ally of enemies of the peace process...on another note why does adams always manage to be out of the country when the shit hits the fan??

Some competitive posting going on here. You guys had it up on Slugger within 5 minutes of one another.

They have them for 48 hours for interrogation. The physical evidence reported includes both sterling and dollars (?!!) so the cover story about the money laundering operation is probably true. The Irish Times reported that 60,000 pounds was in Northern bank notes.

Anyway 48 hours is enough to establish whether the money is from the northern job and then following the trail back to Belfast.

Good for the Garda. Someone is working this case.

Let's make sure that the hysteria surrounding this case doesn't interfere with anyone's right to a fair trial.

Gerry Adams really has his finger on the pulse, he even knows when to retract his certainty, he must have spies in the Garda.

All I can say is watch this space, if a SF/IRA member is charged with anything in connection with this.

Adams' statement from yesterday could perhaps be seen in a new light now...? Prophetic or coincidental?

"Gerry Adams really has his finger on the pulse, he even knows when to retract his certainty, he must have spies in the Garda."

I was thinking the same thing. Must have gotten a tip off.

Can I ask anyone who knows, NOT to publish names of arrestees on Slugger for legal reasons.

Email them to me instead...

;o)

Does it matter if a member of the IRA or Sinn Fein is charged with all this?

What I mean by this is what happens if the IRA refuse to recognise said person/s and they aren't whisked off to Castlerea open prison like the McCabe killers and are instead sent to Portlaoise as common or garden bank robbers.

Then we are in common criminal, nothing to do with us guv, territory.

This would also be very convenient for Gerry and Martin as they have plausible deniability as it will be argued that it wasn't a sanctioned raid.

What happens if all these guys are from the south?

George
I doubt they are all from the South, there has to have been Northern memebers. However I do think it likely that it was unsanctioned or freelance, whatever way you want to put it. It may just leave SF in the clear.

"It may just leave SF in the clear. "

In the clear--With whom??

SF member arrested--- its not us Guv he did it on his own ???

Straws and clutching spring to mind

If you had £2.5 million on the island of Ireland would you not expect to find more than 60k in Northern notes.
Already we have Gerry A and Martin Mc G in the frame and as of yet the Gardai have said very little.
We've only 24 hrs to wait before charges have to be laid.

Barnshee
The PSNI, Governments & other parties have been blaming the IRA and saying SF had full knowledge of it. This may turn out NOT to be the case.
We'll have to wait for further details of the arrests and follow-up investigations of course.

SF includes a broad spectrum of Republicanism. The robbery will make some members very uncomfortable, and it will please others.

I'd imagine there's more sweat being expended over the McCartney murder.

ITV and UTV are now reporting that £10 million has been siezed.

Breaking News are now saying two members of SF arrested...

The PSNI, Governments & other parties have been blaming the IRA and saying SF had full knowledge of it.

Not quite true Maca... it was claimed that SOME senior members of SF had foreknowledge. Remember how the Irish Volunteers had a cabal within who were IRB ?

Go for a nap and the excitement happens LOL

'southwest city of Cork'?

Hello? Surely the biggest news here is that Skynews think Cork is in the southwest of Ireland?!?

;-)

Now, what was this about a greenpaper? It'll take more smoke and mirrors than that to claim the front page.

NewIreland Pension Fund Managers may have less money to invest than they had thought!

Fair enough Dav, but in Aherns words "the political leadership of the IRA" knew of the robbery, which means more than "some senior members" in my opinion. ;)

Isn't Cork in the south west?

"Go for a nap and the excitement happens LOL"
me too just got up...
Headline News BBc South

maca doing a nice defence:
"It may just leave SF in the clear."
minutes later
"Breaking News are now saying two members of SF arrested..."
Davros please no acroynms IRB what is that?

You'll have to take a look at a map slug ;)

Newstalk 106 is reporting that one of those arrested in Cork was a former SF Councillor. Anybody have a list handy of former Cork SF councillors?

Maca - seems strange to be arguing this point, but I don't believe all the senior members of SF are associated with the IRA. Think Pearse and co' within MacNeill's Volunteers. Let's not throw the bath out as well as the baby and the bathwater ;)

'Isn't Cork in the south west?'

Nope. I would consider Tralee to be Southwest. Cork is definetly South in my book.

Google "mapofireland" in Images to get a map of Ireland.

"maca doing a nice defence"
Defence of who spirit-level? Spit it out.
I'm exploring the ideas because I don't know who did or did not do it.

only 60k of this money is from the NB. they don't tell us how much was from the ulster bank, bank of england, bank of ireland or first trust. could this not just be money from another of the RA's illegal enterprises?

'could this not just be money from another of the RA's illegal enterprises?

£GBP10M Cash?

Highly unlikely, IMO, but theoretically possible.

maca
"I doubt they are all from the South, there has to have been Northern memebers. However I do think it likely that it was unsanctioned or freelance,"
4 pretty big claims
you've already made your mind up!
For someone just :" exploring the ideas because I don't know who did or did not do it"
Egg .... face make sense?

Sinn Fein releases :

Published: 17 February, 2005

Commenting on reports in the media this evening surrounding arrests in Cork and Dublin a Sinn Féin spokesperson said:

"I am aware of reports in the media this evening regarding arrests in Cork and Dublin and speculation that it is linked to the Northern Bank Robbery. Sinn Féin‚s position on this robbery is clear.

"Over the last four weeks we have seen people rush to judgement time and time again. We would urge people to exercise caution on this occasion and allow the truth to come out.

"Sinn Féin has no further information about these arrests and we will wait to see how events unfold before we comment further." ENDS

S-L - The Irish Republican Brotherhood - the cabal led by (or most associated with) Pearse who set up Easter 1916 from within Eoin Mac Neill's Irish Volunteers.

Cork is probably South West of wherever Sky News is based ;)

spirit-level

Play the ball.. and leave the personal stuff out.

Spirit-level
"4 pretty big claims" 4 claims???

George questioned if they could all be from the South, I don't think it's possible (considering how the operation was carried out). I think it's probably freelance but it's based on what I know now. My mind isn't made up, unlike others i'll wait for all the facts.
Clearer?

Yep, looks like anytime soon we're going to hear to be presented with the evidence Orde, Blair, Ahern et. all, didn't have.
Either that, or the party activists about Cork and Derry have been selling one hell of an amount of ballot tickets.

Pete, no harm done. Let him have his fun.

Question for NI posters.

Weekdays 7:30 & 10:00 do ye automatically get Skynews Ireland or regular skynews?

Sorry for diverting the thread - Normal coverage to resume shortly.

£10 million?

BBC and RTE are reporting £2-2.3 million.

Both RTE News and BBC NI are stating that the Gardai haven't even examined the 60k Northern notes yet.

'ITV and UTV are now reporting that £10 million has been siezed' - Pat Mc Larnon.

Sinn Fein in Dublin said "no elected
member of the party" had been arrested.

Btw, I think the Gardaí have 72 hours to question them, not 48 as mentioned earlier.

Breaking news have also said 10 million but a lot of other sites have said 2 million.

Sinn Fein in Dublin said "no elected
member of the party" had been arrested.

Back to the recurrent theme of "election-workers" and/or "agents" upon which I have commented in the past ?

Can't see the reference to £10 million on the UTV site now. Perhaps they've backed off that number.

RTE are saying "former" elected SF official: that seems to tally with the Sf statement from Dublin.

ok
Whether or not this is the Northern bank robbery being unveiled; its already clear that the operation was targeting Provisional funding,
and one man arrested is reportedly a SF councillor or ex-councillor.
Whatever way you put it, or want to see it, perception or reality.
I predict this will change the course of Irish History and its ramifications will be as big as
micheal collins' return from London.
Just my view, my opinion.

The Guardian seem to have a lot of details.

[play the ball, john - ed. peteb]

The White House has just released the following short, and rather pithy, statement aimed at ending speculation over whether or not Sinn Fein will get an invite to this year's St. Patrick's Day celebrations: "You must be joking. Only respectable people are being invited this year, like Tony Soprano and his "family".

Ah well, the shinners probably wouldn't have got a visa this time anyway.

I lifted the £10 million from teletext on ITV and UTV. Also a rather breathless and adamant Jim Cusack, Independent Newspapers, (I know I should have known better) told Mike Nesbitt on UTV it was £10million. He also went into a lot of detail about twhat happened, so i guess that can be dismissed as crap as well.

spirit-level

do you really think the stakes are that big?

Richard Delevan "Anybody have a list handy of former Cork SF councillors?". There is only one that I can trace Don O'Leary elected for the North West Ward of Cork City Council in 1999 but who didn't stand in 2004. The one thing I will say is that there were also arrests in Dublin so there's no certainy that if one of those arrested was a councillor, that they have to be from Cork.

For what it's worth Cork SF, lives up to the "Rebel County" tag. Several members of the party canvassed against the referendum to amend articles 2+3 in 1998 while I believe SF was officially neutral in the campaign in this country.

It's reported that at one of the addresses a washing machine and a primate were taken away for examination, Garda Supt Sean O Kerry stated, 'this looks like a monkey laundering operation'.

Pat

Groan. I'd leave the damage limitation to Gerry Kelly!

Nothing like a bit a graveyard humour Pat!

I think tonight we could very well be looking at the demise of SF political aspirations for many years to come.

Gonzo,

Gerry will do his thing, i'll do mine.

KeithM,

I seem to have heard that more than once.

Joking aside, folks.
I really do think we should rein back a bit on the speculation and jumping to conclusions.
It's like being 5-0 up with two minutes to go,anything can happen, so let's not jump the gun too early.

Pat
Anything new to report from any of the news channels? Has anybody tried Fox News?

I think the game is up. Even if these raids are not connected to the bank robbery, the Irish Government have decided the game is up.

The IRA, is an underground organisation which relies on non legal methods to fund itself. They do not report their earnings, and they do not submit tax returns (Pat McL, even you have to admit to this). Wether the Sinn Fein leadership is involved in this is questionable.

Obviously the government has decided to dig some dirt, regardless if it can be connected to the robbery or not, some dirt will stick. They are in fact forcing the IRA to come to the inevitable juncture when they decide to disband.

They are attempting to force the RM to make a leap which they wanted to make on their own terms.

Wether they give into the pressure, or jump into the trenches to wait it out will be very interesting to watch.

If this is connected to the robbery, and the IRA as a movment was involved in the Northern, then it was a huge own goal from which they find it hard to recover from, especially in the south.

But then again we will have to wait and see how things pan out.

"Several members of the party canvassed against the referendum to amend articles 2+3 in 1998 while I believe SF was officially neutral in the campaign in this country."

From my understanding Keith, the Ard Fheis asked for people to amend the party’s constitution and then members could decide to canvass the referendum themselves, on what ever position they favored.

Pat McL "I seem to have heard that more than once." Not from me you haven't. I've predicted gains for SF/IRA in both UK and Irish general elections ever since 1992, at times I've underestimated those gains and once or twice I've over-estimated them. I'm still not sure how any potential charges and convictions will play in NI, but in this country they'll go down like a fart in a confessional.

'The IRA, is an underground organisation which relies on non legal methods to fund itself. They do not report their earnings, and they do not submit tax returns (Pat McL, even you have to admit to this). Wether the Sinn Fein leadership is involved in this is questionable.'

PaddyC,

I've never said anything to the contrary.

A primate and a washing machine? Don't be bringing religion into it!

No offence Pat, I just think this is pretty damaging. I think the only way Sinn Fein will be able to get out of this one, is to deliver an end to the IRA.

Otherwise their whole political enterprise on the island is jeaprdized, and I for one do not want to see that happen. Do you agree?

They shouldn't have crossed Bertie.
From the moment Gerry in his arrogant hubris tried to lord it over Bertie, the shinners were always going to be nailed - sooner or later.

We must, of course, pay tribute to Michael McDowell as well. Excellent Justice Minister. Was very impressed by the holiday pile as well - no such thing as an annual fortnight in a B&B there. But, we can't begrudge the guy, considering how well he has done.

"They shouldn't have crossed Bertie.
From the moment Gerry in his arrogant hubris tried to lord it over Bertie, the shinners were always going to be nailed - sooner or later"

Jacko

Are you suggesting that Bertie had a part to play in these arrests?

NornIron
Jacko this is a great newshound

Pat

Yes I do think the stakes are that high.
First of all let me say
I'm not a member of any party
My politics are like Ghandi's
I'm a passionate believer in the
Re-Unification of Ireland
but only by fair not foul means.

Now a conclusive link between the crime and the IRA would be deeply embarrassing for both the paramilitary group and Sinn Fein.

In my view it will finish them off.

In its place there will arise,
and gather momentum, the true face
of nationalism,which won't be 2-faced.

This will be a totally new scenario

Unionists will have no ammunition.

Paisley will be finished too.

That's the optimists view
the glass is half full ;)

Political fiction at its best spirit-level ;)

Good info here.

cg

As you and I both know (though I accept you might have forgotten), Bertie does not have the power to direct searches, arrests and such things. Sure he told us so himself.

I think the Commissioner of the Garda must have heard Gerry bad-mouthing Bertie on the TV and radio and thought to himself: "Who does that big northern git think he is, coming down here and bad-mouthing our democratically elected leader. I'll fix his wagon for him."
So the Commissioner told his men:"Keep an eye on this guy's comrades and see what they get up to."

Hence today's developments.

So cg, as I think you will now agree, if Gerry hadn't crossed Bertie, he wouldn't have angered the Commissioner, the Commissoner wouldn't have got mad and told his men to watch Gerry's men, and today's arrests wouldn't have
happened.

It takes you to follow these things along as they develop, then you can put two and two together and make four.

Thanks spirit-level, excellent news site.
Love your last post, by the way.
Believe me, a lot of unionists wouldn't be that hard to coax - by genuine republicans like yourself.
As a side issue, I think the case for an all-Ireland police service is well-nigh unanswerable.

"It takes you to follow these things along as they develop, then you can put two and two together and make four."

or

2+2=17, If you go by your logic ;)

Come on now CG, while it mightn't add up to £26m, it is pretty significant. £2.5m lying around a house in Cork? Found as part of a Garda/CAB operation against the provo's?

Even without the whole Northern Bank denials this is savage stuff. Is there anyway it could possibly be anything other than the proceeds of criminal activity?

2+2 does indeed make 4, unfortunately for Security Correspondent of Independent Newspapers Jim Cusack £2.5 million doesn't make £10 million. So already we have a degree of misinformation that has very publicly turned out to be false.

There may be Northern robbery notes involved, just as easily there may not be.

People may end up before the courts, just as easily they may not.

Already on this thread we have examples of different types of political scenarios that may or may not arise. The arrests were only a few hours ago.

According to one normally-reliable source, some of the serial numbers match notes stolen from the Northern Bank.

I am treating this cautiously right now, so if I get independent confirmation, I'll let you know.

Jacko - they also have a site for the ROI
but the quality in respect of relevence isn't as good as Nuzhound - loads of links are to stories round the World using Irish names - l,inke Bangor Maine etc.

Strong stuff from APNI's David Ford :

“Perhaps Gerry Adams will now offer a further clarification of his comments in Madrid yesterday if his first apparent clarification is not itself to appear mischievous and misleading.”

Gardai congratulated in Cork blow against organised crime

Davros,

strong stuff indeed, 'people need to be careful about their comments, but....'.

Pat when APNI can savage you, it's time to throw in the hand ;) (Sorry Ian ! No offence )

Davros

Old Fordy is a laugh isn't he. First he warns against premature speculation then launches into a bit of it himself.

I don't agree, as things sit now, that this is the most important development since Collins returning from London. But I definitely think it has shades of de Valera's move against the IRA of that time about it - all of course in the context of modern legal parameters.

Let's make sure that the hysteria surrounding this case doesn't interfere with anyone's right to a fair trial.

This quote is from Henry94, someone who was demanding that "evidence" be published about the Northern Bank robbery before it got to trial.

Unbelievable.

Jacko,
"I think the case for an all-Ireland police service is well-nigh unanswerable."
Brilliant!

Davros
True about the news site. But isn't it useful to read news about how others see us, rather than just how we see ourselves. on the island. You get the odd eye-opener.cheers for Nuz

cg
"Political fiction at its best spirit-level ;)"
LOL
Funnily enough, some unionists, as jacko says won't be so hard to coax.
but as it happens, I'm equally worried about getting some nationlists on board :)

Davros,

'Pat when APNI can savage you, it's time to throw in the hand ;) (Sorry Ian ! No offence )'

Don't, it would be too easy and probaly earn me a red card.

Pat - I will insist you get a fair hearing and a yellow card first lest anyone judge you without proper evidence.

:o)

Gonzo,

RTE News at 9.00pm stated that the Northern notes recovered were not being examined until tomorrow when PSNI detectives will arrive in Dublin.

Apparently the £2.3million was found in the house of a financier who has a business in Cork.

If the PSNI would now take a leaf out of the Garda's book and move decisively against the loyalist paramilitaries this island might, just might, start to move forward as a collective.
The challenge to democracy posed by political linkage to organised crime of all sorts, and the power bases established by all the paramilitary groups should not be underestimated.
Together they are threatening to drag us all downwards to where we would eventually be living in the equivalent of a south American banana republic.

'southwest city of Cork'?
................
Cork is probably South West of wherever Sky News is based ;)

There is a poster showing the New Yorker's view from the top of the Empire State Building looking west. You see New York taking up most of the foreground, a little bit of Pennsylvania, the Mississippi, a thin, featureless ribbon for the Midwest, the Rockys and then the Golden Gate and China. I think that somewhere, someplace, the English have a similar westward-looking poster for Ireland showing Dublin taking up most of the space, some boglands with the roads filled with sheep and tractors and then West Cork off in the distance. The Crown Bar might be way off to the right.

You'd think that you'd find more English in Waterford where they fly the Union Jack, but Noooo, West Cork is thoroughly riddled with them. It must be the attraction of the wild west combined with a short drive from the ferry at Rosslare. I recall one stay in and around Clonakilty when we ran into nothing but English couples in the bars and restaurants. Ironic when you consider that Michael Collins' life started and ended just a short ways away.

Pat
I would be the first to jump to your defence.

I may not agree with what you say, but, by God, I will defend to the last your right to say it.

I just made that up, good isn't it.

Who tipped off Gerry Adams that the Gardai were about to swoop on the Northern Bank robbers.
Or was his comments in Madrid yesterday a coincidence!

Who tipped off Gerry Adams that the Gardai were about to swoop on the Northern Bank robbers.
Or was his comments in Madrid yesterday a coincidence!

There are times when it's WORTH risking a red card pat ;)

Posted by: Madradin Ruad | February 16, 2005 02:46 PM

( That'll 'larn' you to snipe at your betters David LOL )

James

I take it there was some point you were trying to make in your last post.
English people should be barred from living in the Republic - is that it?

Jacko,

there is no doubt your literary star is on the rise.

Davros,

how could i risk a red card now when the threads over the next 48 hrs are going to be great craic.

"Btw, I think the Gardaí have 72 hours to question them, not 48 as mentioned earlier"

It was Section 30 that was mentioned. As I read it, it allows 24 hours just on the cop's sayso and another 24 if one of the bigwigs OKs it. Amnesty International has their knickers in a twist over it, possibly since it's like being picked up in the Jim Crow era by some cracker sheriff in Alabama "fer suspicion". Heaven only knows what the Patriot Act lets them do here now.

Pat

All joking aside, fair play to you for hanging on in there and fighting your corner like a good'un. Respect.

James
You could be right, though many of the reports are claiming 72 hours. Well, wouldn't be the first mistake tonight, perhaps the 3rd or 4th?

"English people should be barred from living in the Republic"

That is the most twisted, perverted and xeonophobic response to that posting that I could ever imagine.

There is no shame in therapy, my boy. Good luck, as we will have nothing further to say to one another.

BTW Pat, et. al.,

A tumble dryer or a washing machine full of slugs or metal washers is used to "weather" new bills in counterfeiting operations over here.

A few doors kicked in by the guard's, republicans arrested and possibly brought before the courts, will not stop the desire by tens of thousands, if not millions of Irishmen and women to see their country reunited. Nor will it right the wrongs of decades in the north. What im saying is there will still be a need for a peace process of some sort or other. SF, come the weekend will still be the largest nationalist party in the north and thus will need to be shown the respect its mandate demands. Somehow nationalists/republicans and Unionist/loyalists have to find away to live together in the manner the rest of the people of Ireland and the UK do. Not easy but far from impossible and to lay all the blame for the last thirty odd years at the feet of the PIRA, is just plain wrong.

If anything, this current crisis, if handled properly, may, in the long run strengthen Gerry Adams and his colleagues hand within the PRM. Whether that will be a good thing is another matter and not for me.

The broadcast media are being very cagey on this, but the story I'm hearing is the £2m is part of the Northern Bank hoist. It's not one but at least two members of SF in custody and they are much higher profile than some unknown former councillor. There have also been raids in Meath and Louth and the are more to come. Tomorrow it looks like we'll have the smoking gun.

Sorry but to clarify, when I say "more to come", I mean the raids have happpened just that they haven't been widly covered yet. My source isn't THAT good ;-)

Well James, then pray tell us what all that diatribe was actually in aid of.
The only vaguely relevant point I could find was that there are lots of English people in Waterford but west Cork is "riddled" with them.
Were you just trying to say: "I've been to Ireland?"
If you were, why didn't you just say it for Christ's sake without all that nonsense about the Manhatten skyline.

"but the story I'm hearing is the £2m is part of the Northern Bank hoist"

According to reports Keith, the Gardaí are meeting with PSNI reps tomorrow to establish whether or not the cash is from the Northern heist, and that nothing has been checked so far.

Jacko, go and stick on the kettle then have a relaxing cup of cha. Maybe watch a bit of tv and give the aul PC a rest. ;)

Terrific discussion going on on Vincent Browne on RTE, focusing on the probable level of Sinn Fein support in the south after this. Browne making the point that if Jean McConville's saga just before the last general election didn't dent their vote, this won't either. Listen here.

James,

I believe that's were the term laundering came from.

RTE,

Independent Newspapers correspondent Jim Cusack travelled down from UTV to be on Prime Time RTE 9.30pm. He stated that all the money recovered today was from the Northern raid, for definite. He did not mention the £10 million that he had falsely alluded to earlier as that would have been a tad embarrassing to his role as an expert on RTE.
SF was offered a role on the programme, but in what can only be called a cowardly move resfused to put up a spokesperson. on the plus side Ian P jnr came on and behaved in that appalling manner that even grates fellow unionists.

Mickhall,

what a miserable rallying cry when a bit of introspection is required from republicans.

maca
I think it's you guys, the minor apparatchiks, trying unsuccessfully to employ the old damage limitation and shifting of focus tricks, that need a rest.

Mickhall
It doesn't matter what they get up to then - as long as someone claims it is all in pursuit of a UI.

Jacko
"I think it's you guys, the minor apparatchiks, trying unsuccessfully to employ the old damage limitation and shifting of focus tricks, that need a rest."

If you think i'm trying for 'damage limitation' or 'shifting of focus' then you clearly need to take a break. The kettle must be boiled by now. ;)
Apparatchik - good one!

ShayPaul

Weekdays 7:30 & 10:00 do ye automatically get Skynews Ireland or regular skynews?

You get 'regular Sky News'.

However, you can go to 'add channels' and add Sky News Ireland to receive the Irish version.

Davros

No offence taken at all, you're absolutely right!

(It is a sign of someone with confidence in their view that they don't mind people making fun of it!)

Cheers IJP :-D

Richard - clicked and the discussion is over - but a great version of Handbags and Gladrags by Mary Coughlan, Cheers!

"more than 60k in Northern notes."

Pat, I would have thought the opposite. The Northern notes would be the give away and would be spread thinly or even destroyed. The rest of the Sterling, Euros and Dollars would be far easier to deal with.

Jim Cusack said on UTV £10m was unconfirmed but at least £2million.

"come the weekend will still be the largest nationalist party in the north and thus will need to be shown the respect its mandate demands"

mickhall, its the Good Friday Agreement that gives the Shinners the entitlement to be included in a future administration with their 25% share of the vote, the problem is thanks to Sinn Fein and the IRA the GFA is virtually dead in the water, the only way to restore its credibility is to go back to its founding principal of all the parties being committed by their actions, not just their words, to non-violence and that includes robberies etc, the irony is that it is the GFA that guarantees Sinn Fein their right to be included in an executive yet an executive will only be re-established if Sinn Fein are excluded until they play by the rules. If nationalists and for that matter republicans aren’t prepared to move on without Sinn Fein, at least temporally, the whole project is down the tubes.

25% of a popular vote in a standard democracy does not entitle Sinn Fein to a say, the Good Friday Agreement does.

The Times is naming the Sinn Fein guy arrested:

"The arrest in Cork comes after weeks of denials by Sinn Fein that the IRA was involved. Tom Hanlon, who in the past stood for the Irish Parliament as a Sinn Fein candidate and is a former councillor, was arrested with two other men and a woman. Three more men were arrested in Dublin."

Maca
Had that cup of tea and a lie down and still haven't a clue what James was on about, perhaps you could explain.

Mickhall,

what a miserable rallying cry when a bit of introspection is required from republicans.

Posted by: Ringo

Ringo

Did I write something which was untrue, No, I simply stated a fact, what you are calling introspection, others term sackcloth and ashes, hardly helpful. Better to wait for the ROI legal system to do its work.

Jacko,

I long ago gave up on the broken egg theory of political activity, preferring to see an omelette, no matter how thin it may turn out to be on the first attempt.

Some details on Gavin's Blog

and guess what ... SF election agent ....

Whoops - hat-tip to Young Irelander's site for the link to Gavin.

mickhall
I prefer to be realistic myself.

Davros
what a hoot
Gavin's blog really should have said
"Painter by day"
and the other site
wot a roasting
That's what's been upsetting me.

those news sites before are
up to date 5/10 mins
Nuz is every 5 hours !!!

The Times of London follows Gavin's scoop, and also names the top SF suspect in custody. It's Tom Hanlon, Passage West councillor and 2002 candidate for TD in Cork South Central. Also election agent to SF's 2004 MEP candidate for South Constituency. Way to go Gavin - I nominate him for the 2005 Dashiell Hammett Investigative Blog Award.

So now we have the proof
" >Tom Hanlon
dirty lying bastards.

Tom Hanlon

Careful S-L, you have press reports. Nothing more , nothing less.

"So now we have the proof
" >Tom Hanlon
dirty lying bastards"

An absolute disgrace S-L

Has this man been found guilty of a crime? NO!!

What makes you think you have the right to slate someone’s character with out even knowing the full facts?

Cavanman was yellow-carded for less

Irish Times leads (no subs req bc frontpage) with it (though doesn't name Hanlon, he's readily identifiable). And adds these juicy titbits:
"Gardaí strongly believe that some or all of the cash seized was part of the haul from the raid on the Northern Bank in Belfast before Christmas.
The home of a close relative of a man working in a key position for the Government was among the premises raided in Co Louth, although he was not arrested. A Cork businessman is also among those arrested.
Last night a man walked into Anglesea Street Garda station in Cork and handed gardaí more than £200,000 in cash. He is believed to have been given the money to hide by one of those arrested."

There's something unreal about all of this, reads like something from Conan Doyle or one of those B&W Gangster films here spinning newspapers have headlines "Sensational developments in XYZ case ".

mickhall

What im saying is there will still be a need for a peace process of some sort or other.

Can't we just have peace? The never-ending "process" is very tiresome and costly.

SF, come the weekend will still be the largest nationalist party in the north and thus will need to be shown the respect its mandate demands.

Should the BNP be shown the respect its mandate demands in Burnley? Should the French National Front be shown the respect its mandate demands in France?

cg

We can get to the trial and beyond with the party line butother than amusing people it wouldn't achieve much. The time hascome to decide what kind of party Sinn Fein wants to be.

Republicans can't be criminals the man said.

What I want to know is can criminals be republicans. I won't be voting Sinn Fein again unless I get a satisfactory answer to that question. Did the IRA lie to Martin McGuinness or did Martin McGuinness lie to the rest of us?

Either way I'm sick of it.

Perhaps it is time for the Southern parties to organise up North?

Alan2

I think it is.

Gonzo,

'According to one normally-reliable source, some of the serial numbers match notes stolen from the Northern Bank.

I am treating this cautiously right now, so if I get independent confirmation, I'll let you know.'

Excellent post Gonzo, just enough wriggle room to let you off the hook if the story is crap but enough to be able to claim a scoop. BTW real examination of the notes will begin when they are transferred to Garda HQ in Dublin mid Friday morning.

Richard,

'Last night a man walked into Anglesea Street Garda station in Cork and handed gardaí more than £200,000 in cash. He is believed to have been given the money to hide by one of those arrested.'

Has there been any confirmation on this as no news agency seems to be carrying it.

Pat

RTE had it this morning.

Where do you think we go from here?

Can there be a better opportunity for the RM to set P O'Neil on his long boat, throw on the torches and push him out into the Fjiord.

Bathwater/Baby : SF/Leadership

Struggle between Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

The fledgling newspaper Daily Ireland will not be affected because one of it’s directors was arrested in connection with money laundering – Discuss.

smcgiff

He wasn't arrested.

It could all just be subtle manipulation to force disbandment of the Provos of course. I really hope this doesnt lead to a long hot summer after all the work done by all sides of the community over past years.

As a SF supporter, I think the terrible vista opening up for the leadership is going to have to cause some fundamental realignment within the Republican Movement, and possibly another 1997-type split. I think we might see SF recover something out of this if they play their cards right, but anathematising the IRA (which now seems a compelling course of action?) will bring its own dangers.

The Lord Jesus Christ warned His followers, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15).
The warning was important because Jesus later said to them: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; therefore be shrewd as serpents, and innocent as doves" (Matt. 10:16). en:

Henry,

too early to say as there seems to be a whirlwind of information (sic) flying in all directions. Throughout the day might bring a bit of clarity to the situation.

S-L

Not the bible, please.

ok Pat just fer you ;)

Hope there'll be some convictions here
If the gardai don't mess things up.
What's needed is a large cull
Perhaps the Justice Minister may need to
go to the Dail
to get funding for more prisons

Allrightthinkingpeople
"As a SF supporter, I think the terrible vista opening up for the leadership is going to have to cause some fundamental realignment within the Republican Movement, and possibly another 1997-type split."

I see the logic of what you are saying, or at least what leads you to saying it, but would make two points.

Firstly, it presumes that there are differing views on such criminal activities at leadership level. That, to say the least, is not something that can be presumed.
Also, by that presumption, it kind of puts certain guys forward as "doves" being dragged down by hawks - convenient for some people at this time.
Secondly, why the realignment this late in the day? Just because things have been exposed like never before? Sounds more like cynical damage limitation than a genuine belief that all political parties should behave within the law.

Great post Jacko

It's a simple case of right and wrong
and that's what the law is there for.

All the politicking,
and oh dear
there's gonna be
so much of
it the coming weeks
merely serves a lie
to mask the truth.

McGuiness
the master illusionist
The great hypnotist
has had us all conned

Ireland awake from
this sorcerers spell.
Reclaim your land
reclaim your heart and soul once more
and honour the true fallen hero's.

opps I'd better get
to that job interview

Double-take LOL

McGuinness to take over as president of Law Reform body

Unrelated to the above post by me :

Coincidence ?
Man shot in both legs after being abducted in Co Louth

Even though it warms my heart to see the shinners finally reaping what they have sown over the years, my one big fear is that it will put unionists off talking to republicans for a long time.

I used to understand the need for the SF doublespeak and the imaginary barriers they put up between them and the actions of the IRA. But what used to appear as pragmatism, now just looks sleazy. The shinners have definitely 'jumped the shark' in 2005.

What is needed now is for new voices to come from republican areas, that are not tainted by this SF sleaze factor. I wouldn't care who they are or what they have done in the past, I just want republicans who talk straight and have no party line they have to stick to. I am sick of SF spin.

I can think of Anthony McIntyre, Mick Hall, John Kelly and our own Henry84 for starters. I know they are republicans through and through but they talk straight and they make me want to listen and understand. Our peace process deserves republicans like them.

Two nations i believe that the republican community will choose its representatives and with fairness its not for unionist to choose for us.

On this latest saga give it time the truth will out. If this money was connected to the northern the gards wouldn't need forensic checks all it would take would be a quick look at serial numbers. Lets take five due process and all that.

J Kelly

The police don't know the serial numbers of all the notes. I imagine the new notes will have been destroyed - they are useless.

Two Nations
"...it will put unionists off talking to republicans."

Hopefully not, just put them off talking to right-wing nationalist gangsters masquerading as Irish republican. There are lot of examples of the real thing out there - and that's only north of the border.

Should the BNP be shown the respect its mandate demands in Burnley? Should the French National Front be shown the respect its mandate demands in France?

Posted by: willowfield

Willowfield,

As much as it sticks in my throat to say it, but yes one does have to respect the democratic mandate of the Front National and the BNP. surly that is what democracy is all about and to bend and twist it, say by banning these Party's is to bend and twist it out of all recognition. Whilst accepting that such Party's have a right, due to their electoral mandate to sit in the council or Parliamentary chambers, the rest of us have an equal right to work towards their demise at the ballot box. Surly if authoritarian and racist Party's gain enough votes to get them elected, then we as democrats are doing something wrong. and we had better find out what it is pretty dam quick. Before it becomes to late, as neither the Party's you mentioned believe in the democratic process.

Of course this whole palaver with SF is they have not as yet %100 committed themselves to the democratic process. Myself I have concluded that even if the democratic process is slightly stacked against them, (due to how NI was set up) they have no viable alternative to their full participation in it, not least because that is what the overwhelming majority of the people of the Island of Ireland want. One does not have to be a military strategist to see that to go back fully down the road of armed struggle would be a disaster for republicans.

On the recent arrests, it is still possible these have little to do with the bank heist, but it is Bertie flexing his muscles and saying to SF, if you wish to go back/carry on with your old ways, this is your future. If so, maybe we will see one of PIRAs arms dumps rolled up, after the inspections I doubt they are that secret. Finally I agree spinning has to end, when you read that committed SF supporters have their doubts about what they are being told by SF's leadership, one can only conclude beyond their ranks no one believes a word Mr Adams is saying these days.

mickhall

As much as it sticks in my throat to say it, but yes one does have to respect the democratic mandate of the Front National and the BNP.

OK, so do you think these parties should be included in coalition governments in order to "respect their mandates"?

surly that is what democracy is all about and to bend and twist it, say by banning these Party's is to bend and twist it out of all recognition.

Not sure where the banning suggestion is coming from. I'm certainly not advocating it.

"Police in Derry were attacked by stone throwers, with one officer being treated for concussion after he was struck on the head."

Mickhall
"On the recent arrests, it is still possible these have little to do with the bank heist, but it is Bertie flexing his muscles"

So, if this money is the proceeds of other crimes other than the Northern Bank it doesn't matter then? It must be only bertie flexing political muscle?

As for political mandates, the shinners and others talk as though the mandate allows them to do just as they please and as if it is a permanent thing. Neither is the case.

Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy has said suspected members of the Provisional IRA and a dissident republican are among those arrested in connection with yesterday's seizures of sterling and euro cash in Dublin and Cork.

"On the recent arrests, it is still possible these have little to do with the bank heist, but it is Bertie flexing his muscles"

Probably both.

'So, if this money is the proceeds of other crimes other than the Northern Bank it doesn't matter then? It must be only bertie flexing political muscle?'

The IRA exists as a very complex organisation with a very wide logistical set up. Of course it has loads of money, didn't everyone know that.

'As for political mandates, the shinners and others talk as though the mandate allows them to do just as they please and as if it is a permanent thing. Neither is the case.'

With a mandate you do have responsibilities, while not permanent it is there for the forseeable future.

Pat
Its not that it has loads of money that is the point - how did it get it? Organised crime?
If so, that makes it a mafia that happens to have a political point of view.

maca:

"You could be right, though many of the reports are claiming 72 hours."

Yeah, everyone is reporting 72 hours alright so you are probably right.

"All those arrested are being held under Section 30 of the Offences against the State Act at Garda stations across Cork and Dublin. They can be questioned for 72 hours."

----Irish Times Breaking News

I quoted 1939 legislation and it was possibly amended in that flurry of anti-terrorist legislation following the Omagh bombing.

48 hours to go.

WIllowfield :

"Should the French National Front be shown the respect its mandate demands in France?"

It should, and it does, though a large part of the population does not agree at all with its' policies.

If you read the policies of the NF in france, you will see that they bear a startling resemblance to the DUP and their charismatic leader has an uncanny similarity to Dr NO.

Jacko,

they've had loads of money for the best part of 30 years. Why is everyone acting so surprised?

I see the UUP are having a go at money laundering themselves. A small effort, but everybody starts somewhere. Should they be excluded for criminal activity ?

Shay - isn't that a bit risky ?

Only if he gets caught.

Ferguson always came across as a decent spud.

Tooth fairies liked to raid.

Tooth fairies linked to raid.

The key question is why was Tom Hanlon arrested.

He has been released without charge but his arrest was used to link Sinn Fein to what otherwise looks like a dissident operation.

The only person charged so far is an alleged rira member. None of those who have had files about them sent to the DPP have any connection to Sinn Fein.

There is a bad smell from this.

ShayPaul

Since mickhall hasn't answered, I'll ask you the same question.

Since you agree that the "mandate" of the French NF should be "respected", do you believe that this should involve inclusion in a coalition government, which Provos in NI seem to believe is the test of such "respect"?