Second line gives it all away another ubiquitous police 'source'. The fourth estate, is that the Shankill or Rathcoole?

Another daft piece of speculation from security services who have proven their complete inability to understand Provvie tactics or penetrate their organisation.

Most nationalists are worried whether the IRA are moving too quickly towards disbandment since we all know that it is coming - the question is 'when are the Brits and their loyalist front organisations going to do likewise?'.

Who cares whether it is a police source or not ?

What republicans are avoiding addressing about this issue is, if it wasn't the IRA then who was it ? What armed organization was able to take over a house undetected in Poleglass ?

'What republicans are avoiding addressing about this issue is, if it wasn't the IRA then who was it ? What armed organization was able to take over a house undetected in Poleglass ?'

Roger,

as for who did it? that is indeed the question. You can take any of the alphabet organisations and factor them into the equation. The fact of the matter is house take overs have been a fact of life here for decades.

A more pertinent point and one I have raised, without address, is the fact that Orde based his adjudication on intelligence, given that warrants to raid homes and businesses on the basis of that intelligence and those raid were fruitless, what does that say about the intelligence?

Of course, the idea of a twin track approach is only conceivable if one suspends the fact that the IRA and Sinn Fein are inextricably linked, as many who post here appear to.

The Economist likes to dodge around the fact that many at the top of Sinn Fein also occupy positions at the top of the IRA.

Also, the idea that a "pension fund" heist for redundant terrorists is "A NICE IDEA" is repulsive to any democrat.I

Then again, the Economist is rarely right. But frequently left.

Pat, you can indeed take any number of organizations and factor them into the equation, but none fit as well as the IRA does. Not even republicans believe that the UDA or UVF are capable by themselves of organizing things beyond random sectarian killings, that is why they usually see fit to accuse the British of directing them. It's pretty ridiculous to believe that the British were behind the robbery; the implications for the British government if they were ever caught would be massive, far beyond the details of what goes on in NI. "British government officials order bank robbery" - the implications for Britain's (inter)national financial services market would be huge.

"intelligence" could well include informants or other sources, and he's obviously not going to let the cat out of the bag on those, if he did he would be a complete idiot. How do you know that the raids were fruitless ? You weren't there (at least I assume you weren't), and the TV cameras were only at one or two of them.

The thing I have noticed is that when interviewed (every republican) when asked by a news reporter (do you think SF/IRA robbed the bank) each and everyone said in various ways NO!

Have the republican movement really got that strong a grip on the Catholic community of Northern Ireland? is there that much fear on the streets of Turf Lodge, Ballymurphy and other areas occupied by Catholics?

I don't know if SF/IRA robbed the bank or not, neither do you.

I wonder if the bookies would take bets on "who did it" and what odds would SF/IRA come in at?

Think I smell coffee, how about you?

Roger

'It's pretty ridiculous to believe that the British were behind the robbery'

If this site had have been around in 1987 and I had said that the British Army arranged for one of their soldiers to import a large amount of weapons from Sth Africa for unionist paramilitaries I guess you and a lot of others would have scoffed. But then we had Brian Nelson.

"intelligence" could well include informants or other sources, and he's obviously not going to let the cat out of the bag on those, if he did he would be a complete idiot. How do you know that the raids were fruitless ? You weren't there (at least I assume you weren't), and the TV cameras were only at one or two of them.'

Usually if they are fruitful there are arrests and then charges. No arrests, no charges, no evidence = bad intelligence.

Pat,I suppose you gave the IRA and Sinn Fein the benefit of doubt when they denied involvement in gunning down Garda McCabe?

How long before we see a similar situation to that with Adams appearing on Irish TV screens insisting the bank robbery was not "authorised"?

Someone pass the sickbag.

If this site had have been around in 1987 and I had said that the British Army arranged for one of their soldiers to import a large amount of weapons from Sth Africa for unionist paramilitaries I guess you and a lot of others would have scoffed.

Cannot speak for anybody else, but I would have believed you as I would have been seen it as a logical counter-terrorism ploy - and I'm not in any way voicing approval with that comment.

'Cannot speak for anybody else, but I would have believed you as I would have been seen it as a logical counter-terrorism ploy - and I'm not in any way voicing approval with that comment.'

So loyalist violence was actually counter terrorism?

Young Irelander,

I watched Hugh Orde some time ago on a road outside Newry shortly after a bomb had been discovered and a number of men arrested. Orde stated that the Real IRA had been dealt a devastating blow. At the trial of the men several months ago it was revealed that a PSNI agent had set the whole thing up and the men were realeased.

Something simliar happened to a number of men from Coalisland who were subsequently released.

I treat anything Orde says with a huge pinch of salt.

So loyalist violence was actually counter terrorism?

All of it? That would surprise me.

"I treat anything Orde says with a huge pinch of salt."

Why then do you treat everything SF say as gospel,eh Pat?

Furthermore,it is more than just Orde's opinion,it is the opinion of all the parties in the island except SF and it is the opinion of the two Prime Ministers but why listen to them when you can listen to the men in balaclavas,eh?

'Why then do you treat everything SF say as gospel,eh Pat?'

Factually incorrect and something I challenge you to prove, but you won't will you?

'Furthermore,it is more than just Orde's opinion,it is the opinion of all the parties in the island except SF and it is the opinion of the two Prime Ministers but why listen to them when you can listen to the men in balaclavas,eh?'

Politically motivated opinion is by its' very nature biased. All of these parties are basing their assumption on the steady stream of leaks from 'sources'. Plenty of leaks, not a shred of evidence. Castlereagh Mark II.

Pat McLarnon, a man who is NOT, repeat NOT, a Provo supporter, takes the word of self-confessed terrorist godfather Martin McGuinness and serial liar Gerry Adams (the man who said he "believed" the IRA when they said they didn't kill Garda McCabe), over the word of Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic and every other political leader in Ireland ...