Sorry to have to disagree with you, Mick

I don't see 'turning up' in the Republic as being a viable option for those three.

And the 17 year sentences are not for travelling on false passports.. they're for training FARC in urban warfare tactics.

The more obvious question is when did they actually flee. I doubt they have waited for 6 mths before running at the last minute.

could they have been in the republic all this time?

The footage of them imprisoned in Colombia is an elaborately constructed mockup somewhere in the bowels of Castlereagh holding centre!

"The more obvious question is when did they actually flee. I doubt they have waited for 6 mths before running at the last minute.

could they have been in the republic all this time?"

interesting point, they could well be. I'd like to think Bertie and the guards would hand the men over to Columbia.

I'd like to think Bertie and the guards would hand the men over to Columbia

It would be a matter for neither bertie nor the Gardai. It would be for the courts to decide. There would be no basis for entertaining an extradition request from Colombia and I doubt very much that such a request would be made.

no basis for entertaining an extradition request from Colombia

for breaking conditions of Bail ....

Good to see all those law abiding citizens who are so deeply impressed with the Colombian judicial system clamouring for these men to be returned to custody in a country that famously built a private prison for the biggest drug dealer on the planet, Pablo Escobar.

I wouldn't allow a dog to be kept in the conditions that are par for the course in Colombian prisons. Hope the men are in Ireland and cannot see any Irish gov. sending them back to die in a Colombiam prison.

Could someone tell me if the Irish Republic has an extradition treaty with Columbia?

Did anyone see Ruane on with Carruthers last night? Hilarious.

Christopher,
there is no extradition treaty in place between Ireland (Republic of) and Colombia.

Rumour has it they are in Venezuela.

SeanOg

"Hope the men are in Ireland and cannot see any Irish gov. sending them back to die in a Colombiam (sic) prison."

Maybe they should have thought about that possibility before deciding to train a bunch of communist drug-dealers new bombing techniques designed to bring down military and civilian aircraft?

Venezuela - which also has no extradition treaty with Colombia.

Maybe they should have thought about that possibility before deciding to train a bunch of communist drug-dealers new bombing techniques designed to bring down military and civilian aircraft?

The irrationality gets worse. If the IRA had such abilities why didn't they use them against the British?

Henry94/Eoin O'Spin

I see you don't deny that the FARC are a bunch of drug-dealing communists, or that they where training them. You only appear to be disputing the nature of the training provided.

Here's a question: If they weren't training the FARC, what on Earth where they doing in the malaria-ridden jungles of Columbis, travelling on false papers? Oh, silly me, they were eco-tourists!

Columbia, not Columbis.

Or even 'Colombia', Chrus ;)

peteb

Clever-clogs!

Christopher

I see you don't deny that the FARC are a bunch of drug-dealing communists, or that they where training them.

I know little about them so I have no opinion about FARC but I followed the trial of the three men and no evidence was produced that justifies your belief. So it's irrational like the vast majority of unionist contributions on this subject here and elsewhere.

I have no doubt that had Slugger been in operation at the time we would have had the same voices denying the innocence of the Birmingham Six and The Guilford Four on the same irrational basis.

Henry94/Councillor O'Spin

So, to repeat - what exactly where they doing in the malaria-ridden jungles of Colombia travelling on false papers? As one who has followed the trial closely you are in an ideal position to provide an answer. I find it strange that you cjoose not to.

choose, not cjoose

I'll leave the noble councillor to come up with an answer. Don't worry. Take your time, Catriona Ruane's had three yers and she still can't think of one....

I wouldn't allow a dog to be kept in the conditions that are par for the course in Colombian prisons.

How good were the conditions in which the IRA detained and questioned their "prisoners" SeanOg?

I strongly doubt that these gentlemen were eco tourists. Having said that , I also doubt that one can place value on the decisión of one of the most brutal and corrupt militaries here in South America. It is easy for anybody to be condemmed in Colombia by special power military courts and it raises questions after they were found inocent in civil court.

The Colombian military along with Brazil has the worse human rights records in the Americas and they are known financiers of the Right wing paramilitary death squads as well as drug traffickers. The FARC and THE ELN are not the only ones envolved in drug trafficking in these parts.

I doubt that the IRA has much too offer one of the strongest guerilla/terrorist armies in the history of the AMERICAS. They control vast territories in the Amazons and the Antoquia regions and entire towns are Ander their hands. They run a terrorist war that the IRA never had the capacity to run and have more than 25, 000 men/women in arms. I doubt that three clúster bomb makers had much to offer. But. I was not there, but as a Latin American I would not trust the verdict of one of the more brutal and corrupt armies in the hemisphere.

I also think that if they had any sense they would have left Colombia a long time ago, for they are surely on the AUTO DEFENSA UNIDAS' ( right wing terror squads)comprehensive death list. They would have been fools to stay.

For those of you whor read Spanish La Opinión in Colombia has some good articles. http://www.laopinion.com.co/viernes/nacional.asp?PG=10

"How good were the conditions in which the IRA detained and questioned their "prisoners" SeanOg?"

I'll wager they were better than those poor souls hung upside down in cattle sheds across south armagh when they were being interrogated by those poor misunderstood little terrorists

As mentioned before Mario - Sinn Féin should stand up and openly declare their support for FARC. But they won't as it would upset the US Government and really upset all their Irish-American dollar donors
who are way to the right of the DUP. They showed the same moral cowardice over their support for ETA and their support for the PLO and Hamas.

Thanks for your perspective, Mario. Interesting to get a South American perspective.

Damn, these coincidences do happen at the damndest times, don't they?

Cop shops gets burglarized, papers and disks get found right at crucial points in negotiations. Now just as Ahern is about to grasp the kaka end of the stick with this McCabe thing, a golden opportunity arises as the lads slip across the Rio Negro.

Why not put up a grand front and shield these poor lads who have been railroaded by the repressive Colombian regime? Christ, it was getting that you couldn't railroad anyone in South America anymore with all this touchy feelie crap going on. Hell, they are even putting the arm on Pinochet ferchristsakes. Ah, for the days of Somoza and the juntas again.

In return for standing up to the grave miscarriage of justice perhaps Walsh, et. al., could tend the flower beds at Castlerea for a little while longer, say another 10 years or so? Hmmmm..... Sluggiepoos?

You don't think that Bush decided to reach out and touch someone else after he got through with Gerry do you?

Now Bertie can placate those pesky PDs, burn his revolutionary tunic along with Mao's little red book and send with those godless, commie, Labour guys packing. It's back to the anorak.

Party on.

Christopher,

Before SF answer questions on Colombia;

Perhaps the DUP will tell us what a Canadian gun runner was discussing with Sammy Wilson in the parlour at City Hall when that particular person was Mayor of Belfast?

Perhaps the DUP will tell us the real connection between the likes of Mc Crea and Billy Wright and the LVF that operates in the Mid Ulster area.

Perhaps the DUP will give a full inventory of the weapons held by Ulster Resistance.

I'll not hold my breath as the DUP are the most shameful hypocritical liars ever to grace this place

Convictions speak louder than words Pat ;)

Davros, I have not read of links between SF and the FARC. There very well could be;however the point, I was making is that I do not see why a brutal terrorist army like the FARC would have any use for second rate terrorists from the IRA. Perhaps you give your terrorists a little too much credit.

the FARC has been waging the war in Colombia for more than 40 years. They began as a peasant’s movement with a legitimate land for the farmers agenda, and they have degenerated into a terrorist army. Now the word here is ARMy, they are a ARMy with vast territory under their control and with networks of terrorists and kidnappers all over Colombia’s cities. They are only matched and surpassed in brutality by the right wing paramilitary Army which serves no other purpose than to massacre FARC perceived sympithizers by the thousands and they are supported and armed by the Colombian military sponsored by the US which you in Ulster now want to call a legitmate court with credibility. I am certainly not getting into a- our terrorists can kick your terrorists ass here, but perhaps a little perspective would help, before legitimizing a corrupt military's verdict. The Uribe goverment with the help of the Bushies plan Colombia agenda have given these human right violators a green light.

Colombias war is brutal and the terrorist army there does not seem to need anything from third rate terrorists.

We beleive that they were here trying to establish drug routes to Europe. That seems more beleivable to my South American eyes. It would certainly explain the passports.

I agree somewhat on the background of SF supporters in North America, they do tend to be more of the center right than the traditional progressive left in America.

As far as the PLO , they are recognized by most goverments and will be meeting with US envoyss soon. I think they even meet with British authorities so it is certainly not something you can hold against SF.
AS far as I know they are not linked to HAMAS or Hezbolah, unless you want to say that all Palestinians look alike to u.

Any word of the ones who didnt get away?

Kidnapped

Perhaps you give your terrorists a little too much credit.

Think on this Mario - the IRA gave the world the Car Bomb.

Keep trying

Kidnapped

kidnapped

Aquifer, you need to remove (URL) from the "(URL)">hyperlink - are you leaving the brackets ?

Good link.
This says it all:

Uribe only cares that Bush is sending him money for his war. He's happy. Bush is happy. I am very depressed. There is so little hope."

Davros can you explain to me how to do this? I always post the whole url. I want to impress friends and family.

Mario - copy the format given in the note below

Remove (URL) from the "(URL)"> part and replace with the full link. Do the same for the hyperlink part and replace with the text you want displayed.

Interesting perspective regarding the alleged usefulness of the IRA to FARC Mario. Expert forensic witness Dr Keith Boer made the same point at the trial

http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia172.htm

“Dr. Borer has testified in many high-profile cases in the past including the Oklahoma City bombing and is considered to be an expert in IRA weaponry. Steve McCabe, a U.S. lawyer who was a member of a delegation of international observers that witnessed the trial, said Dr. Borer "testified that the weaponry used by the IRA and FARC are vastly different, having to do with the diameter of the mortars, the different types of propellants used, different types of detonating devices, etc. The conclusion obviously to be drawn from his testimony was that the FARC weaponry was of a much more sophisticated nature than the IRA's." Borer's testimony suggests that the FARC have little to learn from the IRA with regards to the type of weaponry for which the Colombia Three allegedly provided training. Furthermore, the IRA never used land mines, so it is highly unlikely that the three Irishmen, as Hutchinson alleged, would have been able to teach the FARC about this particular weapon that the guerrillas have been using for decades”

Bush isn’t the only one sending Uribe money for his war

http://www.anncol.org/side/122

However I wouldn’t be so cynical to remotely suggest that this had anything to do with the outcome of the appeal : - D

WOCI- why don't SF just come out and say they support FARC ?

"the IRA gave the world the Car Bomb."

You guys are SO full of yourselves. John Wayne invented it when he ran the wagonload of black powder into the bad guys and detonated it with his Winchester. Everybody know that.

Here's some stuff nobody knows:

Barbara Robbins bought it when the NLF (VC to you) detonated a car bomb outside the US embassy in Saigon in 1965. Of course we could count the Stern Gang as the owner of the patent's prior art when they detonated a truckload of explosives in the center of Jaffa in 1948 with a dishonorable mention to whoever planted the wagon bomb in front of the J. P. Morgan's offices on Wall Street in 1920.

You could also count one of the attempts against Napoleon using a wagon bomb but I'll stick with the American Anarchist Fighters against the French any day.

Interesting links James.

Christopher Stalford

So, to repeat - what exactly where they doing in the malaria-ridden jungles of Colombia travelling on false papers? As one who has followed the trial closely you are in an ideal position to provide an answer. I find it strange that you choose not to.

Catriona Ruane's had three years and she still can't think of one....

Wrong.

The three men gave statements in court explaining exactly what they were doing there and I have heard Catriona Ruane refer to those statements in many an interview.

Here are the statements

Martin McCauley

James Monaghan

Niall Connolly

I became active in political mobilisation against the British political and military occupation of part of Ireland in the 1980s. In particular, I was influenced by the hunger strike in 1981 when ten Irish prisoners died in a British prison. I participated in campaigns and protests during this period. I support Sinn Fein and wherever I was, at home or abroad, I made myself available to promote the aims of Sinn Fein. I am a supporter of the Irish peace process and the efforts of leaders like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness who are striving to bring about a lasting peace with social justice.

no mention of his working for SF while in Cuba ... Just Fancy That :)

I support Sinn Fein and wherever I was, at home or abroad, I made myself available to promote the aims of Sinn Fein.

Hay alguien aqui que hable inglés?

I support Sinn Fein and wherever I was, at home or abroad, I made myself available to promote the aims of Sinn Fein.

Rather different from being SF's DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE in Cuba ..... but of course SF were bricking it as they like to downplay their Cuban ties in case it upsets all those dollar-donors :)

"Convictions speak louder than words Pat ;)"

Exactly the point I am making Davros. The DUP have connections with people convicted of many serious offences.

Meanwhile over at Omagh electoral office.

The DUP will expel people convicted of serious offences Pat whereas Sinn Féin don't. What % of SF office holders have convictions as compared to DUP ?
And how do those convictions compare in terms of seriousness - back to uncle Bertie the TV License dodger vs Fred West. Have any DUP Party workers been banged up in the past few years ?
The DUP may have connections with ...but SF ARE people with....

Henry Hyde - wasn't he the Guy whose invitation Mr Adams, normally so keen to talk in the USA, refused ?

Are we interested in democracy, or terrorism?

What is unlikely to feature very highly in that debate is the briefly stated judgment of the chairman of the United States International Relations Committee of the US House of Representatives, Henry Hyde. He said: "There never was a benign explanation of why two IRA explosives experts using false passports were wandering around in the Columbian jungle with known members of the narco-terrorist group FARC."

He added that the court judgment gave the explanation and delivered the appropriate punishment "for training terrorists who target innocents and who traffic in deadly drugs to Americans and Europeans alike."

These words encapsulate the feelings expressed in the Dail. Terrorism, world wide, is part of the criminal conspiracy that has involved Sinn Fein-IRA, spreading their deadly expertise as was done in this case. The same terrorism is holding up the restoration of democratic politics in Northern Ireland.

"I am not a member of the IRA", those statements are as believable as Gerry Adams'.

Love the Graffito photographed Sandy Row and in today's Irish News

COLOMBIA 3

FARCed OFF

HO HO HO

"The DUP will expel people convicted of serious offences Pat whereas Sinn Féin don't. What % of SF office holders have convictions as compared to DUP ?"

Come off it Davros, the DUP formed their very own terrorist organisation, Ulster Resistance. As you well know that organisation along with the UDA and UVF imported hundreds of weapons fronm Sth Africa that were subsequently used to kill hundreds of people. Pretty serious stuff in most peoles book but apparently of no real relevance to people like yourself.

When one sees people like ex Branch chief Lowry parroting partisan bile at DUP meetings one can only guess why there was little or no action taken against DUP terrorists.

Pat, that's smoke :)
Answer the questions- What % of SF office holders have convictions as compared to DUP ?
And how do those convictions compare in terms of seriousness - back to uncle Bertie the TV License dodger vs Fred West. Have any DUP Party workers been banged up in the past few years ?

Nobody denies the the DUP have Connections with and have had connections with in the past :) Sinn Féin ARE.

"We don't have presently an extradition agreement with Colombia. We will have to look at the legal aspects that arise," Mr Ahern said. subs needed

The fix is still in.

Davros, I thought we'd settled this one. Your usage of conviction as a metric of someone's attachment to or sympathy towards terrorist methods is entirely arbitrary as well as based on dubious foundations to say the least. Under that measure Gerry Adams is completely free of guilt which I think we both agree is short of the mark.

Unionist politicians cultivate arms-length links with paramilitarism because they feel it necessary to keep that minority - but still large - part of their constituency on their side. Loyalist paramilitarism flourishes and grows strong without any fear of serious objection or action coming from unionist politicians. It's time you faced up to this fact.

I wonder when Paisley and Andy Tyrie were working together on the 1978 strike if they ever discussed the possibility of the UFF sticking with good Christian peaceful means. Amusingly, Paisley had condemned the UDA and Tyrie in public in 1976 - but them he was forced to apologize to Tyrie in order to get him on side for his strike. I wonder how seriously we can take Paisley when he condemns paramilitary organizations if the condemnations are clearly conditional as this one was.

I wonder what Paisley talked to the (proscribed) UVF about (same article) when he met them in the Martyr's Memorial.

Did the DUP or any other unionist party attempt to encourage the proscription of the UDA ? That didn't happen until 1991, if I remember correctly. What action did unionist politicians take to ensure this organization which was clearly up to it's neck in paramilitarism got banned ?

Davros, I thought we'd settled this one. Your usage of conviction as a metric of someone's attachment to or sympathy towards terrorist methods is entirely arbitrary as well as based on dubious foundations to say the least. Under that measure Gerry Adams is completely free of guilt which I think we both agree is short of the mark.

You may have settled it in your own mind Roger :)
I have no problems with you pointing out DUP Hypocrisy. But Uncle Bertie vs Fred West.

Pat McLarnon claims not to be a PSF supporter. Why, then, is he always one of the first to jump in and defend PSF every time they get themselves in trouble?

Does any one think they will return to ireland. I think they will stay in colombia or any other south american country where they have connections. (by the way i think they are i.r.a men)