Showed footage of Alex Maskey on the news this morning, Good man Alex.

Not sure of the relevance Davros!

I was really angry watching this last night on Spotlight, not just with the students involved but the failure of Queen's to grasp the seriousness of this issue.

During my time in Queen's/Belfast I spent 3 years in various streets in the Holyland and to be honest parties, noise and general anti-social behaviour was around then (8ish years ago!). Both Queen's and UUJ had a chance to act then to nip this in the bud however Queen's in particular decided to pay no heed.

From the way some of the interviewees came across last night how can anyone deny there is dumbing down education?!

Rant over. Temporarily.

Donnie- I believe in giving credit where credit is due. A.M. was on the streets trying to help. A credit to his party.

The place is a state, the kids totally out of control, and their attitude ('this is our area'..) totally unacceptable.

I have lived in several university cities, and friends of mine agree that only in Belfast is the situation so bad.

The university should be seriously worried about their reputation. If those students represent what normal queens students are like I wouldn't want any child of mine near the place..

(Was I the only one who noticed the underlying Sectarianism of much of the boorish behaviour?)

There is a question to be asked here. The holyland isnt the only 'student' area in South Belfast, but why do none of the other areas suffer from these kinds of problems (or at least not to anywhere near the same degree) caused by the filth which seemed to populate the streets in last nights show.

The sectarianism which could be witnessed in parts only sits on top of the general level of lawlessness which seems to have pervaded in that area.

Send the riot cops in to clear the streets - see how the lovely little students like that. Alternatively they could actually try doing some work - a novel concept for most students.

Davros, I wasn't being cheeky I just didn't realise what the A.M reference was about. Ta for clarification.

Idunnomeself, I agree with you entirely. The police unfortunately are in the position were the law can only go so far as there is a fine line between drunken tomfoolery and out-and-out criminal anti-social behaviour. It is too late to nip this in the bud and now both academic establishments need to take drastic action and start suspending or expelling people. It would be safe to say suspension, expulsion and a criminal record for a prospective doctor or solicitor would make these morons think twice!

The programme yet again exposed the folly of the planning board in this country. Property developers seemingly have carte blanche whereas the average person building a home in the country gets savaged by the planning people.

I remember reading about this a few days ago, some new measures by the Students Union to control.
The Belfasht Telegraf has a peece on it.

No prob's Donnie,
Cheers.

As someone who was present last night in the Holylands trying to calm proceedings I can say, without doubt, that without Alex Maskey's intervention to difuse the situtation it could have been alot worse.

In the student area I live in its the locals who are the problem! Local kids in trying to smash up cars at half one this morning.

Well, cg, you could also say "without Maskey's intervention, it could have been a lot better"

That could covers a multitude of sins you know ;o)

Will, there are other student areas i.e. lower Lisburn Road and Stranmillis but there just isn't the same density of students in these areas. the student density plus the fact that they are generally from rural, nationalist areas mean that loads of people know one another through sports or mutual friends. Put thousands of people with a loose acquaintance in the same small area close to pubs and you have a recipe for disaster!

The population of Botanic ward almost doubles during term-time - apprazimately 5,300 to 9,500. A huge proportion (my guess about 80%)of the housing for those 4000 or so students is in the Holylands.

Windsor Ward (Lower Lisburn Road) has about 1200 students and they have a more widespread distribution.

I don't get it.

The students were protesting about how unfairly the BBC were treating them, so they have a protest in which they demonstrate exactly why Spotlight portrayed them that way?

Like, duh!

Just took a quick stroll round the site of last night's 'protest'. I think we should rename the Holy Land as 'Belfast Car Park and Fly Tipping Amenity Site between the Ormeau Road and Botanic'.

That seems to be an accurate description. I hope we can now look forward to a more peaceful annual St Patrick's Day riot outside Duke's Hotel next year.

No evidence of the lowering of educational standards in the Holylands..........Let's riot because themmuns on tv say we riot all the time. Like.

I will put money on a similar riotous celebration outside Dukes on St. Patricks Day. It's a joke!

As someone who was present last night in the Holylands trying to calm proceedings I can say, without doubt, that without Alex Maskey's intervention to difuse the situtation it could have been alot worse.

Must have been a nice change for Alex! He'd be more used to hyping up such situations!

There did appear to be an undercurrent of sectarianism in evidence - slogans being chanted in support of terrorist groups. Very worrying among a supposedly educated class of people.

The most effective answer to this lies in zero tolerance policing - no other city tolerates this kind of behaviour, and the PSNI response (as portrayed last night, anyway) appeared pathetic. It's not enough to politely ask people to "move on": you need to make arrests. Get some CCTV cameras in place and get people arrested, charged and brought before the courts.

That, combined with expulsions by the universities, is a large part of the solution.

Gonzo
"I hope we can now look forward to a more peaceful annual St Patrick's Day riot outside Duke's Hotel next year."

I thought they were going to apply for grant funding for that sometime soon. After all - its become the traditional 'cultural' display now.

I do agree with the educational standards point - if this is the result of pushing more and more people to go to university then its not exactly a glowing report. Not unless you happen to be doing a degree in late night hurling of course.

"It's not enough to politely ask people to "move on": you need to make arrests."

I suppose baton charging is out of the question?

I found one comment from one of the students quite strange last night: he said that "everyone was from the country and everyone knew each other".

Is the Holyland being colonised by people from the same place (presumably Tyrone or somewhere)? How do they all know each other? And why do they all seem to come from the same "community" (i.e. religion)?

Isn't one of the reasons for going to university to meet NEW people? Mix with people of different backgrounds and cultures??

Or has that all gone now with the advent of Major and Blair's expansion policies?

Having been in the Holylands myself last night, I can safely say that without alex Maskey's intervention the situation would have been much harder to defuse. I can't think of any other way in which the students gathered could have been prevailed upon to leave the Palestine St area last night. Many of us tried to calm the situation down but were having little luck untill Alex arrived.

I see the Guardian is carrying a report on this - BBC documentary sparks student protest

According to the reoprt -

An advertising agency is also being employed by the two[?] major institutions to launch a campaign to convince students to improve their behaviour...

They've employed an advertising agency... yeah, that'll stop 'em.

Theres problems with students in every city in the British Isles, it is up to the college is discipline then if they are their students. In Dublin theres lots of episodes, usually involving the male rugby team or rowing team streaking round the city. College dealt with it by taking away the rowing clubs rooms on campus.

Having been in the Holylands myself last night, I can safely say that without alex Maskey's intervention the situation would have been much harder to defuse. I can't think of any other way in which the students gathered could have been prevailed upon to leave the Palestine St area last night. Many of us tried to calm the situation down but were having little luck untill Alex arrived.

Rather worrying that these people show no respect for their neighbours or the police, yet they'll listen to a Provo.

In some way encouraging that they'll listen to a well respected political represenative, if no one else.

"College dealt with it by taking away the rowing clubs rooms on campus."

As hurley is going on a at strange hours will QUB and UU act against the GAA? Bets anyone?

How can the GAA be held responsible?!

Students were kicking a soccer ball up and down last night. Should the Universities act against the IFA?

Students are, undoubtedly, a microcosm of Ulster society and their behaviour reflects that. Queen's University has a duty to take action against anti-social behaviour and their response is eagerly awaited.

Is Maskey encouraging more concerted police action to deal with these thugs?

Didn't think so.

Maybe he'll send round the boys in the balaclavas with the hurley bats?

Or maybe he'll try to work on the ground in the community with both the students and residents to help make sure that the police aren't needed.

" will QUB and UU act against the GAA?"

stupidest thing I've read all day

PS

The comment was in reference to stopping misbehaviour by punishing recognised university clubs (ie the recognised GAA club not the national organisation) for the actions of their members i.e. to increase peer pressure among students to change behaviour.

If the footballers are part of the University recognised club then so be it.

PS

We know you hate the police, but society is bigger than you and your Provo constituency and it needs police and the police's job is to keep order and enforce the law. If students in the Holy Land are breaking the law, we need a police response.

Reminds me of David Beckhams attempts to show us all that he is not thick by telling the press that he got deliberately sent off

Students will always have their fun. I certainly would not see it as signs of educational dumbing down.

I suppose the density is the big problem. The Holylands after all really is not a big area.

WF

For your information, i don't hate anybody.

What I want to see is a resolution to the situation and from what I saw last night, the police presence aggravates, rather than defuses the situation.

fair_deal

That is fair enough, when I was at uni our rugby club was forever having to raise money to pay for fines. Very unjustly levied fines too

It does have an impact on behaviour

Nothing short of a zero tolerance approach should be employed when dealing with these drunken yobs. PSNI are in a difficult situation dealing with these MOPEs from rural areas.

As a former resident of the area (admittedly I moved out when I was 5 yrs old...quite a while ago) it is depressing to see how what was once an area with a real community spirit being destroyed by arrogant youths who view the Holylands as some sort of Ibiza for the Educated.

There has been a pretty positive police response, WF. Did you not see the recent stories about the success they have had in crime reduction in the Holy Land recently? Looks as though the PSNI made an effort - unlike QUB.

The only people not taking this intimidation issue seriously are SOME students themselves and QUB. I exclude UUJ from this, as they have made an effort to deal with matters. QUB has stood idly by and watched their students wreck the lives of the established residents.

I don't think that is a harsh criticism. I know that as a student a few years ago, yes, there was loads of pissed cone stealing going on then too, but this is another level altogether.

Course, the other main problem is the Planning Service, who seem to think a shoebox and a bedroom are the same thing. No planning permission should be issued for convertain any more houses into Houses of Multiple Occupancy. At all.

Clearly there is a need for a more balanced community too. If nothing else, a few more non-students in the area would likely mean they wouldn't feel they could get away with as much. It would make it feel more like a community, rather than the run-down second-best halls of residence that the Holy Land now is. Queen's Elms students seem to manage OK without midnight hurling sessions, as do others on the Lisburn and upper Ormeau Roads.

Oh, and the place is a stinking mess. Have you seen the 'Beware of Rats' signs up on Carmel Street? Quite how anyone thinks a house with six tenants can be serviced by a small wheelie bin - Tardis-like though they are - that is emptied once a week is way beyond my feeble grasp of waste disposal and spatial geometry...

Mind you, that doesn't mean emptying rubbish into the middle of the street is an alternative. In my day...

God, I feel like a grumpy old Vance today.

;o)

Queen's Elms students seem to manage OK without midnight hurling sessions, as do others on the Lisburn and upper Ormeau Roads.

Those roads don't have nearly the student population. As for the Elms, having lived in both halls and Holylands, i have to honest and say that I felt safer at night in the Elms. The main difference is a QUB security system in Elms which is respected by the residents. i don't mean to hark on a party political point but the lack of respect among many of our community for the PSNI is a central cause of this problem.

Willow if you had watched the programme last night you'd know that the hands of the police are tied as they have to gauge whether the behaviour of the students is drunken high-jinks or criminality.

Also, your comments have consisted of petty points scoring. Do you have anything constructive to add?

PS

What I want to see is a resolution to the situation and from what I saw last night, the police presence aggravates, rather than defuses the situation.

Tell us how the "police presence" aggravated the situation?

Nothing to do with the fact that hatred of the police was encouraged in republican communities by the Provo community "leadership" and we continue to live with this legacy?

... but the lack of respect among many of our community for the PSNI is a central cause of this problem.

Exactly! That was my point which you tried to gloss over!

Gonzo

There has been a pretty positive police response, WF. Did you not see the recent stories about the success they have had in crime reduction in the Holy Land recently? Looks as though the PSNI made an effort - unlike QUB.

Fair enough. This wasn't communicated on Spotlight, though. The police were depicted as hapless.

PS
"Those roads don't have nearly the student population."

Why does the number of students in an area affect the acceptability of late night hurling??? The concentration of students does affect the problems that gonzo has highligted such as rubbish and the general running down of the area, but it is not an excuse for the other behaviour.

"i don't mean to hark on a party political point but the lack of respect among many of our community for the PSNI is a central cause of this problem",

What absolute rubbish. I'm tempted to use stronger terms but will refrain. The lack of respect these people may have has absolutely nothing to do with the situation. How does a lack of respect for the police lead to people intimidating residents from their houses? Was the person they were terrorising last night a peeler?

Stop attempting to justifiy the sectarian and general thuggish behaviour of these morons.

The police arrived last night in response to a 200 strong crowd. They didnt start anything. I dont doubt that Sinn Fein should feel a little uncomfortable that it seemed large numbers of these thugs were running around chanting 'IRA' and 'up Sinn Fein' as they were doing their damage, but you really shouldnt feel the need to try to make excuses for them.

ps

I think that the position of SF on policing gives these yobs a handy excuse to ignore the police, something I think they would like to do anyway.

I think that the position of SF on policing encourages this sort of behaviour, and makes residents lives a misery all around Nationalist/ Republican areas of NI.

I appreciate that Alex Maskey and others occasionally calm situations, but this does not make up for SF's actions.

I think SF should join the policing boards and work constructively with everyone else on them to address situations like this.

don't you?

Must have been a nice change for Alex! He'd be more used to hyping up such situations!

That's a thoroughly mean-spirited comment WF.
A.M works hard to make a difference for his constituents. Wish there were more like him , and If I was a constituent he would get my vote.

Can I ask the younger generation of Students if they think changes to student funding have changed student attitudes ?

As a student rep from Queen's I find some of these threads a total disgrace. Some student's {a small minority} let the student population down last night. A lot of blogger's seem to have a lot of information on what happened last night but I wonder how many were there last night.
I wonder how many were there last night talking to residents and students trying to defuse the situation.
My point on Alex Maskey's intervention was not political point scoring but fact.
The situation in the Holy land’s is a issue to which many in QUB and UU are trying to resolve and there are many factors ranging from bar closing times to a lack of visable intelligence amongst some students.
I don't deny the fact that the PSNI is viewed as ineffective and unrepresentative to many students in the Holy lands area. What we need is a change in attitude amongst students about the holy land’s.
The comments last night by some students that the holy land was “theirs” are very worrying to say the least.
This issue won't be solved by sound bites but by meaningful action on the ground towards more community integration, awareness and acceptance.

Can I ask - what % of QUB students
1) live at home with parents ?
2) live in Halls of Residence ?

Absolutely brilliant on the ground work by Alex Maskey showing what a public representative should do.
There are of course 5 other MLA's in the area, where were they? Where were Patterson and Mc Gimpsey who like to stand side by side with the racists and bigots of Sandy Row?
Even sadder is the old Orange MP for the area who these days probably doesn't know what dat it is.
Next year when people wonder why SF do so well in elections think about Maskey and what he did while others lay in their beds.

With all due respect cg, small minority my arse. I lived in the Holy Lands last year and have most of my friends there this year and they are in the minority that don't try and pee in old ladie's gardens or tell people to 'eff off you orange bastard' when asked to turn down the music. I suggest a 'real' Holyland solution of rolling in the bulldozers, raizing the whole area to the ground and expelling every student. And make them pay for it!
(*David Blunkett moment there*)

Pat

Trying to change the issue? Shurely not.

Pat made a good point. Where were the others when the sh*t hit the fan ? He did rather spoil it by having a few tangential digs, but when it was needed AM was the man on the street helping to calm things down.

A long time ago in another life I and my flat mates had similar experiences. However the bastards DO sleep- not at the same time as everyone else-but they do sleep.

So- As you go to work at 7.30/8 Place your ghetto blaster up against the party wall with the flat next door-make sure it is touching-turn up vol and bass to max. Return and switch off at 5.30/6 Sup a bling hangover and incessant din inside and outside their heads.

Davros

Where any of the other reps told?

"Needia"
With all due respect you seem to be totally unbalanced.
I am not interested in people such as you who have nothing worthwhile or constructive to offer to the situation.
Those of us in the student body recognize that certain students are indefensible and we wouldn't attempt to justify in any way the action's that took place last night.
What we need is cooperation between all interested parties to solve this problem

I don't think I want to lend these ones my tax money yet. They seem very immature and inconsiderate of other people. Perhaps they could go and learn a trade or nursing and then decide if they really want to undertake an academic training. They would then also be able to earn more money during vacations etc to reduce their loan costs. QUB should offer them an opportunity to travel.

The comments are making about the police aggravating the riots are outrageous, considering the disorderly behaviour began to take place following the broadcast, before the police were there. I'd love to hear the chuckies explaining what exactly anybody was supposed to do ?

cg, student rep ? I remember people getting elected to that role at the student's union, you needed like 16 votes. What co-operation are you talking about ? The fundamental problem is that due to a lapse by the planning authorities, we've got a residential area that has too many transient residents in it.

I am not sure what the university is supposed to do about things like this. But what probably would have an effect would be the application of the law to the landlords. Prosecute them if they can't keep their tenants in order.

A point no-one has raised yet.

Are we expected to believe this was a 'spontaneous' demonstration? Hundreds(?) of students 'spontaneously' decided to congregate in 'protest' against a Spotlight programme? Come off it. Will no-one admit to organising this demo?

We have a couple of SF aligned Queen's students (and at least one self-declared student representative) posting here.. who have admitted being in the middle of this last night, "calming people down" I believe is the quote they used.. calming them? not "dispersing them" as the Student's Union President is quoted as saying she attempted to do?

Do our student posters know how this 'demonstration' began?

the only solution is for QUB to start throwing students out, maybe if these 'gob-shites' were studying where they didn't 'know everyone else' they would keep a lower profile!

How many students does Queen's house in halls of residence? Should QUB not consider building more halls?

Peteb

"We have a couple of SF aligned Queen's students (and at least one self-declared student representative) posting here.. Who have admitted being in the middle of this last night, "calming people down?"

I presume it is me you are referring to Pete.

Firstly where on these posts did I claim to be "in the middle of this last night?"
Yes I, and others, did try and calm the situation down by speaking to both residents and students as the situation last night could have escalated out of even more control than it did last night.

"Not "dispersing them" as the Student's Union President is quoted as saying she attempted to do?"

Secondly where did the president claim this as I would be very interested to know as the president was not on the scene last night and I spoke to her this morning and she never mentioned it to us at the meeting?

"Do our student posters know how this 'demonstration' began?"

I received word through a telephone call at 12 o clock that there was a large gathering of students at the bottom of Palestine Street. I was informed that it was felt the situation might escalate and would I contact other student reps to alert them to the trouble.

As for who organized this it is very clear now after speaking with some of the residents and students that it was sporadic. One of the Pubs in the Holy lands area apparently showed the spotlight program in the bar and afterwards everyone left. All it takes is for each person to ring 3 friends and tell them to head down for the "Craic" and you end up with the crowds we had last night.
Due to a total lack of direction by the “protesters” last night it seems clear that it couldn’t have been organized.

cg ps pat mclarnon

all one and the same

connelly house.................doh

maskey has made one visit to the holyland in three years... well whoop fucking ee

hold on i'll run out now and vote for him

where is he all the other nights when there are no cameras about

and while i'm at it where the residents not complaining about students standing on peoples carsdoing damage....

what did maskey stand on for his photo op

********** lets think now **********

oh i remember a residents car, nice one

The Devil
You are an idiot

fair-deal,

Trying to change what issue, elected reps from the area went missing , yet again. It's all part of the issue. No doubt had serious trouble broken out they would have appeared next day, cameras at the ready to fulimate ad nauseum. Maskey was there doing what he is paid to do and showing leadership.

"Where any of the other reps told?"

They really do have their fingers on the pulse of the areas.
The attempts by unionists to deride the role of Maskey is a rather transparent attempt to disguise the failure of unionist reps to appear at the scene.

Given Sinn Fein youth's enthusiasm for the politically motivated vandalism etc practiced by the Basque Youth Movements, the IRAs preference for exclusively nationalist areas from which to launch operations, and their percieved need to continue to recruit and immerse young people in illegality, Sinn Fein condemnation of this activity is less than worthless.

Sinn Fein IRA are two faced and useless as negotiating partners, fleecing the GFA, pocketing the proceeds, and waiting to show up again for the next installment.

Until the IRA stand down and Sinn Fein support the police, we are entitled to suspect the worst of them, irrespective of the personal integrity of individual SF representatives. Would AM know the mind of every faction in the army council?

Pat: The attempts by unionists to deride the role of Maskey

Rather a broad-brush statement Pat. This unionist praised him very first reply to Mick's blog, and defended him thereafter.

cg:One of the Pubs in the Holy lands area apparently showed the spotlight program in the bar and afterwards everyone left.

In my day students spent the evenings studying , grumble, grumble, grumble ;)

Pat

Oh dear! Oh dear! You seem to be arguing that political reps should have psychic powers now. I'm prepared to put money on it that AM turned up because a local resident or student rep contacted him.

This protest commenced at midnight (after all the local news programmes) so how is a political rep supposed to know what is going on unless someone tells them?

At the last public meeting organised by the residents group there was a cross-section of political reps so if told they do turn up.

Also CG and PS have objected to the presence of the PSNI in the Holylands on the basic argument of "They are Prods in uniform" so how would a Prod political rep turning up help the situation?

How exactly has this thread moved from discussing the shower of scum that rampage through the holyland to the Alex Maskey appreciation society?

Will - it moved because of ill-natured nyurping about Alex Maskey by some Unionists.

Front Page Irish News today has a pic of Mayor Ekin in the Holyland talking to residents.

Finally the rest of the world can see what I saw during my three years at Queens - that these students are nothing but a bunch of gather-ups and trouble makers. My deepest sympathy goes to the people who have to live alongside them.

There impromptu protest proves clearly that it wasn't simply "a minority" who were creating mayhem in the Holylands.

Will Queens act to expel them? And lose all that lovely money? Not on your life!

Their not there

Sorry

maskey has made one visit to the holyland in three years... well whoop fucking ee

He's actually been in the Holylands three times in the past week, but sure don't let a wee thing like the facts get in the way of your arguement.
Very dissapointed that no Unionist poster other than Davros has had the good grace to congratulate Alex for his brave actions on Tuesday night.

Patrick ... I'm not a Unionist poster, I'm a member of the unionist community :) It's that miserable begrudgery of Unionism that ensures that I point this out every time I'm labelled Unionist.
And, yes,before anybody says anything, I have my own points of begrudgery.

"I don't deny the fact that the PSNI is viewed as ineffective and unrepresentative to many students in the Holy lands area"
Ok, fair enough, get Alex Maskey(and he did do a good job, Tuesday-there you go first Unionist poster praising him)to round up a posse from Lower ormeau/markets to explain to these spoilt brats from Backwoodsville what their kind of anti-social behaviour may lead to.

I don't approve of vigilante justice, I just think a stern talking from real hardmen(as opposed to those who shout abuse at old ladies) in the main culprits' ears may help them to see the error of their ways.

Next year, when Spotlight do their 'one year on...' {Un}Holy Lands Special, and there's a student protest, I will be ringing Cllr Stalford to get down there and sort things out.

:o)

Praise be to Blair for sticking them with tuition fees. Looking forward to seeing how Queens is going to campaign for student poverty now

Pat McLarnon

There are of course 5 other MLA's in the area, where were they? Where were Patterson and Mc Gimpsey who like to stand side by side with the racists and bigots of Sandy Row?

They probably would have been attacked if they'd turned up.

Regarding Maskey, the man is a Provo and he can't expect his previous (we hope) support for rioting and violence, and his party's failure to support the police, and encouragement of others not to support the police, not to be mentioned in this context.

I can't think of any other way in which the students gathered could have been prevailed upon to leave the Palestine St area last night.

I can - a baton charge.

"I can - a baton charge."

Couldnt agree more!

"Maskey was there doing what he is paid to do..."

Only in Ireland are politicians paid to turn up at riots.

So in your estimation Young Fogey, a violent riot would have preferable to the peaceful dispertion?

So in your estimation Young Fogey, a violent riot would have preferable to the peaceful dispertion?

Nope, and I'm not dissing Alex Maskey for the work that he did either. But I think Holyland students thought there was a chance of getting a good hiding from the peelers they'd be less likely to cause trouble in the first place, and maybe non-student residents of the Holyland could get on with their life without their garden being pissed in, having rubbish dumped in it, car vandalised, etc., etc.

Look, Patrick, if it was joyriders causing trouble at three o'clock in the morning your party would be calling for fairly robust action to be taken and rightly so. I don't see why it's different for students.

"I can - a baton charge."

Hear, hear!

idunnomeself

"Was I the only one who noticed the underlying Sectarianism of much of the boorish behaviour?"

No you were not. If the shoe had been on the other foot and people draped in Union Flags were making life a hell for the residents of the Holylands, I wonder would Chris Gaskin and Patrick Savage be advocating such a softly softly approach.

These people should be subjected to the full rigour of the law. They are malcontents and should be cleared off the streets if necessary. If the local residents know who the ringleaders are, they should apply for an Anti-Social Behaviour Order - see how that looks on a CV.

Name: A Student

Qualifications: BA (Hons) (Child Studies with International Finance) ASBO (2004)

LOL!

I'm sure you'll sort next year's freshers out Christopher.

What nonsense. Nobody present on Tuesday was "drapped in a tricolour". There was one instance of somebody with a tricolour on the spotlight programme and that was only as a Halloween costume.

Is the Ogra Shinn Fein graffiti still up in the Holy Lands?

"What nonsense. Nobody present on Tuesday was "drapped in a tricolour". There was one instance of somebody with a tricolour on the spotlight programme and that was only as a Halloween costume."

And i'm sure there was no-one chanting IRA or shouting Sinn Fein! at the cameras as they staggered past.

And, btw, what kind of halloween costume requires an Irish Tricolour???

Most of the student's there the other night only attended for a "nosy" to see what exactly what was going on. Most of them don't give anyone any trouble.
As for the cop's. Yes they didn't help the situation by driving up through the crowd in a provocative way. The reason why student reps asked the cop's to leave was because of the mood at the time.
The cop's said firstly they were only there to protect the ambulance. When the ambulance left they remained. They then said they were there to protect the residents. When I spoke to some of the residents they said they didn't want them there. They very wisely believed as a lot of us did that they were not helping the situation.
I won’t even try to defend the action's of some of the student's the other night as they were despicable and should be condemned. The problem however wasn't black and white and shouldn’t be treated as such.
Stalford's comments however stink of the sectarian quagmire to which he inhabits. There is a very serious problem in the area and there are those of us trying to solve it but some of these comments are blatant attempts to turn this into a sectarian issue to which it is not

"And, btw, what kind of halloween costume requires an Irish Tricolour???"

A very good one.

Patrick Savage

"There was one instance of somebody with a tricolour on the spotlight programme and that was only as a Halloween costume."

Do you think that was an appropriate use of your "national flag"? or a you just another "plastic paddy"? Green beer all round?

"There is a very serious problem in the area and there are those of us trying to solve it but some of these comments are blatant attempts to turn this into a sectarian issue to which it is not"

Fine. Remove the students, remove the problem.

""And, btw, what kind of halloween costume requires an Irish Tricolour???"
A very good one.

Your halloween parties must be a barrel of laughs you wacky student you!

My previous comment was only a joke for those of ye who try and sttack me.

"blatant attempts to turn this into a sectarian issue to which it is not"

I have relatives who were put out of the Holylands because they were Protestants, so save your sanctimonious Sinn Fein/restorative justice-speak for someone else!

Sectarian indeed!

CG
If the "previous comment" is your response to the tricolour issue then how about addressing the issue.

You tried to pass off tricolour waving students as simply haloween revellers. Do you really think it is necessary for students to run around the streets at night wrapped in any particular flag? Do you condemn that as a sectarian action only likely to stir up tensions and cause trouble?

Christopher, were they 'put out', as you put it, by students in hallowe'en costumes? Somehow I doubt it.

If that was the case Chris it was wrong. You are however trying to turn this into a sectarian issue.
It isn't, so don't give me any of your middle-class bullshit.
If you have nothing constructive to offer then don’t offer anything at all

"You tried to pass off tricolor waving students as simply Halloween revelers. Do you really think it is necessary for students to run around the streets at night wrapped in any particular flag? Do you condemn that as a sectarian action only likely to stir up tensions and cause trouble?"

Will
If students were walking down Donegal pass or the village (which would be most unlikely) draped in a tricolor then I would not consider it to be right. If however they were walking around the streets in a flag for a laugh then I wouldn't consider it sectarian.
What I would consider it to be is lack of respect for the national flag

"middle-class bullshit"

Presumably most of the students in the Holy Land are middle class too though. Otherwise how could they afford QUB?

"Presumably most of the students in the Holy Land are middle class too though. Otherwise how could they afford QUB?"
BG
You really are out of touch.
I am from a working class background and proud of it. I am also attending QUB.
The reason how a lot of us afford it is through part time jobs and loans.
A lot of us don't have rich Mammy's and Daddy's to give us money hand over foot.
I for one am glad as when I finish my degree and become a solicitor I will always be able to say I done it myself.

You'll be able to say you 'done it yourself', although one would hope that you would say that you 'did it yourself'.

(middle class bullshit)

"You'll be able to say you 'done it yourself’; although one would hope that you would say that you 'did it yourself'.

(Middle class bullshit)"

Ha, Ha, very droll.

My granda used to say "If you’re going to use the English language use it badly"
I am a Law and Politics student not an English student.

My granda used to say "If you’re going to use the English language use it badly"

lol good point cg.

Is the Ogra Shinn Fein graffiti still up in the Holy Lands?

No, but 'Hun free holy lands' is. Innocent waggery, you understand.
Presumably most of the students in the Holy Land are middle class too though. Otherwise how could they afford QUB?

From my experience, yes, they are, and they seem to think that as soon as mummy and daddy's eyes are off their back they can start acting 'street'. Y'know, like, chucking their dirty matresses in next door's garden (As happened to my sister). Most of the girls seem have an awful lot of mum's disposable cash to spend at Topshop anyway.
For what it's worth, it's not an ingrained sectarian issue. These 'students' are only weekend republicans and throw their tricolours around to make themselves look like big men. They're just prats who need a great big kick up the ass from their parents, the police, and most importantly from their Universities. In a perfect world, Queen's would expel every Holyland student and save the job market from a bunch of immature, socially irresponsible and ignorant bullies who think the world owes them a favour. They'd probably kick your dog too. And, yes, I am a student, and these people make me ashamed of it.

Neddia
Some of what you say I don't agree with but I do agree with the bit about "Weekend republicans".
To be a republican you can't be sectarian.
I don’t believe students in the holy land area are sectarian but there are a few who need a good kick up the arse so to speak.

Oops, I shouldn't have said that.
It will unleash a tirade of Sinn Féin/IRA abuse from some posters.

You really are out of touch.

Possibly. On the other hand, I'm in the Holy Land nearly every day, and I ain't blind. The hundreds of cars that disappear over the summer are usually in pretty good nick. No-one seems to have any trouble affording the latest designer gear - GAA or otherwise.

I know many work through their degrees. I know I did! Middle class students don't always get hand outs. They certainly don't benfit from grants, hardship funds, benevolent funding or any other scheme I've heard of.

I always found this republican need to stress class background and differences so very, well, British...

Fair deal,

I simply expect public representatives to know what is going on within their constitunecy. Not very much to ask given the money they are paid.

No doubt if a marching band had been organised by the Sandy Row spides arounfd Whitehall Sq the usual suspects would have been there for the unionist photo opportunity, pathetic.

designer GAA gear? eh?

To be a republican you can't be sectarian.

Change 'can't' to Shouldn't and I'll agree with you cg.

Tut Tut Tut, NI eh?

While American colleges get the obligatory "Girls Gone Wild" videos with wall-to-wall T&A, what do we get, Culchies playing hurling at 3 in the morning while onlookers piss in a doorway.

What is it with these GAA heads playing these games 24/7? It's just a tad homoerotic.

3am and with a few drinks in them? Are none of them thinking about getting laid? All those poor GAA widows, their men out at practice almost every night and playing matches at the weekends. And the nights they do go out they end up playing hurley with their mates. Those dumped matresses aren't being binned for excessive use anyway.

It's all those lonely girls that my heart really goes out for. The Spotlight team should have focused on their plight instead of the residents. Our girls want to go wild too! ! !

"Change 'can't' to Shouldn't and I'll agree with you cg"

Davros
No bother.
In my book if you are sectarian then you aren’t republican.

"To be a republican you can't be sectarian."

That one-liner will keep me amused for the next week.

That one-liner will keep me amused for the next week.

I fail to see whats funny.

cg, sectarianism has drifted in and out of mainstream nationalism and republicanism over the years, from the Days of Moran to the sectarian component in the 70's of what republicans call the armed conflict.

The armed conflict was not a sectarian campaign

It certainly had a sectarian component.

No
It was about the removal of the forces of occupation and Irish freedom

OK cg, if you are going to deny that there was any sectarian component, please explain the Kingsmill Massacre. You lose credibility when you deny that there was a sectarian component. You sound like a 70's Unionist denying that there was discrimination...

"Please explain the Kings mill Massacre"
I can't, it should never have happened.
The context however was at the time Loyalists were indiscriminately killing Catholics in South Armagh. The anger I'm sure was impalpable.
This said however it was a war and unfortunately there are no clean wars.
Some, not me, would argue that it stopped sectarian killings in South Armagh.
Even if that was the reason/excuse it wasn't a good enough reason to kill innocent Irish men

cg- I'm not saying that all republicans are sectarian, or were sectarian, only that there was a sectarian component in the past as illustrated by incidents such as Kingsmill. I have no problem acknowledging that there is and was a lot more sectarianism within Loyalism and to a lesser extent in Unionism.

anyhow, Goodnight and God bless :)

"Tut Tut Tut, NI eh?"

"While American colleges get the obligatory "Girls Gone Wild" videos with wall-to-wall T&A, what do we get, Culchies playing hurling at 3 in the morning while onlookers piss in a doorway."

"What is it with these GAA heads playing these games 24/7? It's just a tad homoerotic."

"3am and with a few drinks in them? Are none of them thinking about getting laid? All those poor GAA widows, their men out at practice almost every night and playing matches at the weekends. And the nights they do go out they end up playing hurley with their mates. Those dumped matresses aren't being binned for excessive use anyway."

"It's all those lonely girls that my heart really goes out for. The Spotlight team should have focused on their plight instead of the residents. Our girls want to go wild too! ! !"

Lets start a campaign to have this person on Hearts & Minds instead of David Vance!!!

Two Nations post gave me some of the most unacceptable dreams I have had in years!

The context however was at the time Loyalists were indiscriminately killing Catholics in South Armagh. The anger I'm sure was impalpable.

Jesus, cg, that's a bit far out. Talk about defending the indefensible.

What I'm trying to say is, that it's incidents like Kingsmill that seperate the real scum from the rest of humanity. If everyone in this country had behaved like the IRA unit who carried out the Kingsmill massacre this country would have ended up like Rwanda. So spare me the keek about undue provocation, everyone in this country was, in one way or another, subject to undue provocation during the Troubles. Not everyone acted on it.

Young Fogey
Have you lost the ability to read. I never even tried to defend it. see post
"November 26, 2004 01:55 AM"

"Please explain the Kings mill Massacre"
I can't, it should never have happened.

Even if that was the reason/excuse it wasn't a good enough reason to kill innocent Irish men

What happened the Riot Act

Man stands up reads Riot act -tells crowd to go home Crowd refuses -crowd gets shot seems fair to me.

Chris Gaskin

"Middle cals bullsh*t"

My father is a painter and decorator, my mother is a sales assistant. I'm the first person in my family to have gone to university. I live in a terraced house off the bottom of the Woodstock Road. Everything I have in life, I worked for - my parents never handed me anything. Don't presume to lecture me about class you pompous oaf!

Asides from which, class is an increasingly irrelevant concept in modern society.

class not cals

Sorry

Chris Gaskin

"The armed conflict was not a sectarian campaign"

Darkley?

from the guardian article "The area is dominated by student houses. Some 80% of residents are students at Queen's University Belfast, Ulster University and several local colleges."

hilda complains about the original local residents being forced out of their area, but 80% of the origianl local residents must also be landlords....???

No response from Gaskin - what a surprise!

Christopher, I can see from where cg is coming, and I would agree that the primary objective of what they call the 'arned struggle' was not sectarian. However it should be admitted that there was a sectarian component.

Hmmm- try :

Christopher, I can see from where cg is coming, and I would agree that the primary motivation of what they call the 'armed struggle' was not sectarian. However it should be admitted that there was a sectarian component.

Davros,
If it wasnt sectarian then why did Catholic RUC officers come in for 'particular' attention from the IRA.

They saw them as betraying the sectarian nature of their conflict and so were particularly targetted.

Will, the key word is "primary"

As a Holylands resident I have to agree that the behaviour of the student population in and around that area is getting progressively worse. As a former QUB student you generally tend to tolerate the noise levels and vandalism, but the situation is now beyond a joke.

Someone made a good point that part of the problem is the Holylands is now a predominantly transient population, so much so that the students living there probably assume that only other students live there too. Perhaps the standard of entertainment isn't up to much in the towns and villages they're from, because from Monday to Thursday they seem to go beserk and treat the place like a holiday camp - screaming and wailing at 3 in the morning, singing songs, jumping on cars, smashing glass, kicking bins - it's like they've never been to the big city before. A little old lady lives a few doors down from me and I can only assume she's deaf and sleeps in a back room cos God knows how she puts up with it. Students in the Holylands need to be educated about the fact that families, OAP's and workers live in the area as well.

I think the problems in the Holylands are a consequence of the govt shovelling more and more people into universities and not providing the corresponding increase in funding for the courses, teaching and infrastructure. The Holylands is turning into a student ghetto, to be specific, a rural catholic student ghetto. The last thing we need is students refusing to move somewhere because it has a repuation as a student ghetto of one denomination.

As a student living in the holylands area of Belfast I feel I must comment on some of the messages left on this board. The spotlight programme on tuesday night was irresponsible journalism from the bbc for many reasons. It showed students at their worst being interviewed whilst leaving pubs, no interviews took place during the day time except those with residents. The footage was mostly from halloween night(or the thursday night before), when there would have been a particularly large volume of students out. I also know for a fact that not all of the footage was of students, at least one of the often repeated images was a "professional." It was a one sided piece which failed to mention any of the attacks on students or intimidation on students from large groups of congregating so called "spides."
As for events after Tuesday nights programme, without trying to condone the behaviour of some it was again an example of bias reporting. The behaviour of some students was disgaceful I agree such as those which threw bottles at the psni landrover. However it was reported in news by certain residents that the bottles were aimed at them. This was not the case. Those instigating the violence seemed to be from the residents who brought their children out to see what was happening and tried swinging their fists. The majority of students including myself were there to see what was happening and it was a total spontaneous protest. The small minority who brought sectarianism into it should be condemned. The reports of no violence were also incorrect as a student was quite badly beaten by some of the residents and a paintbomb was thrown by residents indiscriminantly into the middle of the crowd.
I'm not saying students in the holylands are angels nor am I trying to make the much repeated point of it being a minority. The BBC reporting was one sided and I think it is being very poorly handled. The supposed student representatives are not attempting to defend the student population but to defend the university which is leaving the student body feeling more aggrieved.

It showed students at their worst being interviewed whilst leaving pubs

Isn't that when the problems start ?

The Spotlight programme was in no doubt biased towards the residents.

Question's need to be asked of the Queen's Student's Union Executive and there involvement in the protest - there is questions of there involvement in organising the protest.

Agree with Davros that there was a sectarian component to the IRAs' camapign, the names don't lie.

Will, don't wish to sound base but I believe the IRA attacked police officers when and where they could, regardless of religion.

"concerned student", the Spotlight programme's objective was clearly not to portray a day in the life on a Holylands student, it was to show the insane crap that's going on up there, and make the point that something needs to be done about it.

[BTW I hate grammar pedants as much as anyone, but I wish people would do their apostrophes properly, especially those aspiring to the legal profession. It's not hard folks...

New laws for student dwellings

The observer puts a very good point forward, and sums it up nicely:

Nine times out of 10 you instinctively rush to defend the younger generation when they come under fire from politicians, community leaders and their elders over drinking, revelling and general debauchery. But the student protests in the Holy Lands are light years from Paris '68 or the civil rights marches against the old Stormont regime. Last week's demonstrations were the antithesis of those revolutionaries who challenged real repression and discrimination. Rather, they represented a new form of hedonistic nihilism, which shows no regard for the welfare of others outside of their own privileged, featherbedded clique. Hence long-term res idents were threatened, spat at and told the area they lived in all their lives no longer belonged to them.


And like I said to cg, Concerned Student, *I* lived in the Holy Lands last year and pay frequent visits to my friends now. Small minority my arse.

Stalford
When I spoke of your middle-class bullshit I did not refer to you as middle-class but merely your outlook on life.
I remember last years husting's very well and know exactly your politics so don’t get uppity with me.

Christopher the armed conflict was not a sectarian campaign.
The IRA tried to shoot police and soldiers Regardless of their religion. I do admit that some volunteers committed sectarian acts but the campaign itself was not sectarian.

I couldn't respond to your comments because I was back home in God's Country and did not have access to a computer. I understand you miss our wee chats but don't worry we can meet for coffee and a political chat anytime you want.

Now back to the issue of this thread.

"The supposed student representatives are not attempting to defend the student population but to defend the university which is leaving the student body feeling more aggrieved."

Concerned student
I have to say that as a student rep my loyalty will always lie with students as my mandate comes from them. There need's to be more of an effort to show students that we understand it is only a very small minority of shitheads who bring all of us down but you can't defend the indefensible.
I agree that a large majority the other night didn't engage in anti-social behavior but it is the few that did that must be sorted out as they try and bring us all down to their level. A solution need’s to be found before this situation escalates even more.

AndrewD
"Question's need to be asked of the Queen's Student's Union Executive and there involvement in the protest - there is questions of there involvement in organizing the protest."
If you are who I believe you are (Member of student’s union council) then this thread is party politics and you should be ashamed of yourself.
No member of the executive committee was involved in the setting up, arranging or organizing of this protest.
These allegations are made by a certain individual for her own political career and the same person wasn't even there that night.
We will not be swayed from doing what is right and just with regards the holy land dispute for someone who is only in it for political capital.

cg

"If you are who I believe you are (Member of student’s union council) then this thread is party politics and you should be ashamed of yourself."

Some members of the SRC and the SU Executive don't seem to worry about Party Politics when one member being the V.P. Clubs & Societies can be political in praising a certain SF politican.

People like you can be political when you want to be and then damn others for having a point of view and accuse them of things. You seem to be a bit confused there.

Connor G,

I just state a clear Question - one that needs to be answered.

I have to say that as a student rep my loyalty will always lie with students as my mandate comes from them.

Even when the students in question are in the wrong ?

Irish News today reports an outbreak of Tyre slashing over the week-end. Was it students' cars being attacked or random ?

I heard that report too Davros but I had assumed it was students slashing resident's tyres. You think it was the other way round?

TN: Irish news mentions the attacks at the end of an article on the changes in legislation, and quotes a student whose car was one of those attacked :

Meanwhile, around a dozen cars in the Holyland area were damaged at the weekend. Vandals slashed 24 tyres in Carmel Street, Agincourt Avenue, Penrose Street and Fitzroy Avenue in the early hours of Saturday.

One University of Ulster student, who did not wish to be identified, said yesterday she had “no idea” why she had been targeted.

“I need that car to get to college and I really could have done without this,” she said.

Last two paragraphs were also supposed to be in italics as they are also quotes from the paper.

"“I need that car to get to college and I really could have done without this,” she said."

Hardly any students had cars when I was at Queen's. She could use her imagination and get the bus like everyone else! Unless she is commuting from Belfast to the University of Ulster at Coleraine.....

Unless she is commuting from Belfast to the University of Ulster at Coleraine.....

As University of Ulster Student that's entirely possible.

Since when have students been able to afford cars?

I was discussing this the other day. The poor impoverished students of today can be found in expensive bars, sipping expensive drinks whilst clad in expensive clobber. Students these days have cars, laptops, PDAs, designer clothes! Long gone are the days of combats and army surplus clothing!

Gaspin' Gaskin

"I remember last years husting's very well and know exactly your politics so don’t get uppity with me."

Sorry - as a Prod about Queens you'd think I'd have learnt to keep my head down and not get too uppity by now. Grow up sunshine!

"When I spoke of your middle-class bullshit I did not refer to you as middle-class but merely your outlook on life."

Really? That's why you made reference to people getting handouts from their wealthy parents is it? Good grief, you can't even remember what you'd written a few posts previously!

As to my outlook on life - I would like to think that people from all points of view on the political spectrum and none would condemn the behaviour of these loutish students for making their neighbours lives a living hell - clearly I was wrong.

Then again why does it not surprise me that Sinn Fein would make excuses for the drunken excesses of these thugs and hoods. Could it be because they are the right sort of thugs i.e wrapped in an Irish Tricolour?

thinking that students shouldn't be rich enough to have cars is not an excuse for slashing their tires.

In the Good old days of student grants some in my year had cars and nifty motor-bikes : all tee-total ;)

Gaspin

"God's Country"

You live in Scotland?

"You seem to be a bit confused there."
AndrewD
I think you will find it is you who is confused.
You made an unfounded allegation (lie) for which you showed no proof. That is both irresponsible and reckless. If you had bothered staying at the council meeting on Thursday you would have heard the discussion on the matter. The reason you didn't was because you and your colleges got the huff because you lost a vote.
Grow up
"Connor G,"
Wrong CG.My brother is called Conor but my name is Chris. It seems I was much better at identifying you than you were at me.

"Even when the students in question are in the wrong?”
Davros
Yes I will always support students (plural). I will not however defend certain individuals whose antics cast desperations on us all.
You can't defend the indefensible.

Stalford
"Gaspin' Gaskin"
Where did this come from? Saying that, I have been called worse.

"Sorry - as a Prod about Queens you'd think I'd have learnt to keep my head down and not get too uppity by now. Grow up sunshine!"
Firstly let's lay this religion thing on its head.
I would encourage everyone to express their views. I don't believe in censorship.
I couldn't give a fuck if you were Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Muslim etc
Don’t bring me down to your sectarian sees pool.
If you wish to be a fundamentalist nut that’s your bag, for me religion doesn’t count when assessing someone’s character.
"That's why you made reference to people getting handouts from their wealthy parents is it? Good grief, you can't even remember what you'd written a few posts previously!"
That’s it I’m calling the doctor you really have flipped.
I was merely responding to Belfast gonzo not you.
I am sorry but the world doesn't revolve around Christopher Stalford
"I would like to think that people from all points of view on the political spectrum and none would condemn the behavior of these loutish students for making their neighbors lives a living hell"
I did.
"Then again why does it not surprise me that Sinn Fein would make excuses for the drunken excesses of these thugs and hoods? Could it be because they are the right sort of thugs i.e. wrapped in an Irish Tricolor?"
That’s why it was a Sinn Féin rep out sorting the situation. Where were the DUP ah yes, curled up in bed. Pathetic

"God's Country” You live in Scotland?
No. Ard Mhacha dteas

What does dteas mean ? Ard Mhacha I know.

Did anybody else watch Alex Kane and David Vance on UTV ?

CG
"sectarian sees pool"

Or cesspool even - aaah, the wonders of a university education. And to think they say they are making university entry easier these days - surely not!

"What does dteas mean?"
South

"Or cesspool even - aaah, the wonders of a university education. And to think they say they are making university entry easier these days - surely not!"

Ah you got me. The rushes of anger lead to temporary insanity on my behalf.
I will however reiterate that I am not an English student

CG,
Maybe not an english student, but maybe a little less late night hurley and your spelling would improve! ;-)

Thanks cg:)

"CG,
Maybe not an english student, but maybe a little less late night hurley and your spelling would improve! ;-)"
Now that’s low.
I am a Law student and they don't place much emphasis on spelling (thankfully).
I have never played Hurley in my life but must admit I do find hitting things with a Hurley bat to be a great stress relief ;-)( only joking)

I am a Law student

a Brewster in the making ?

[now that's low ;) ]

{only kidding DB!}

Ha Ha very funny

Sorry, couldn't resist ...

""You seem to be a bit confused there."
AndrewD
I think you will find it is you who is confused.
You made an unfounded allegation (lie) for which you showed no proof. That is both irresponsible and reckless. If you had bothered staying at the council meeting on Thursday you would have heard the discussion on the matter. The reason you didn't was because you and your colleges got the huff because you lost a vote.
Grow up"

I simply raised and asked a question Chis. Perfectly viable.

I didn't stay at the Council meeting because I was not going to engage in the childish, stupid, sectarian, republican behaviour enforced by you and your IRA brothers.

It was absolutely appalling. I thought I was back in the 1970s.

I thought Students Council was to discuss student issues. Its no wonder students won't vote. And after all it was you and your buddy's that accused people at the start of the meeting of engaging in Party, sectarian politics. Obviously doesn't apply you you.

"I would encourage everyone to express their views. I don't believe in censorship."

Pity your party colleaugues in Queens disagree. I remember one delighful incident, when a member of your organisation in a drunken state at an election count referred to me as an "Orange Bastard" and to my fiancee as an "LVF whore". Free speech indeed.

"If you wish to be a fundamentalist nut that’s your bag, for me religion doesn’t count when assessing someone’s character."

No matter how much of a "fundamentalist" I may be - I have never sought to defend the murder of innocent people - can everyone in Sinn Fein say the same? Don't think so.

"That’s why it was a Sinn Féin rep out sorting the situation."

Maybe that's because no other political party would be welcome in the area. I have of course prescribed a solution to "the situation" - expel the ringleaders from Queens and encourage the local residents to obtain an ASBO against known troublemakers. These louts shouldn't be pandered to.

"No. Ard Mhacha dteas"

Good to see you wouldn't abuse the Irish language to try and score a point. Sad.

"I am sorry but the world doesn't revolve around Christopher Stalford."

It doesn't? Are you sure?

"I didn't stay at the Council meeting because I was not going to engage in the childish, stupid, sectarian, republican behavior enforced by you and your IRA brothers."
AndrewD
Firstly
The reason you left the other night was because you didn't have a majority for once. Its a disgrace, not only was your behavior rude and childish but you let your constituents down.
As for me and my IRA brothers it seems a typical response from a bunch of sad people to label nationalists and people who don't agree with the Unionist elite as IRA men.
I for one will not stand for been given an honor for which I don’t deserve.
"I thought Students Council was to discuss student issues"
So did I but some councilors spent almost an hour on the cenotaph and Remembrance Sunday.
As a point of information the person who called for an end to standing orders was from the socialist party.
People are entitled to their opinions and the days of nationalists been treated as second class citizens in their own University is over.
Unionist, Nationalist and other have as much right as anyone to be respected and represented at queens.

Now back to my old mate
Stalford
"Pity your party colleagues in Queens disagree. I remember one delightful incident, when a member of your organisation in a drunken state at an election count referred to me as an "Orange Bastard" and to my fiancee as an "LVF whore". Free speech indeed"

I don't remember that but if it occurred it was wrong but if this is last year you are referring to lets not forget who started it. You
You referred to one of my colleagues as a "Provo"
You didn’t even need drink to insult people.
You know what they say "people in glass houses...”

"Maybe that's because no other political party would be welcome in the area. I have of course prescribed a solution to "the situation" - expel the ringleaders from Queens and encourage the local residents to obtain an ASBO against known troublemakers. These louts shouldn't be pandered to"
You weren’t so concerned when members of the unionist community in South Belfast were making life hell for Asian students last year.

"Good to see you wouldn't abuse the Irish language to try and score a point. Sad."
It was a joke or don’t they allow that in the DUP. Get a life

cg

Could you include two carriage returns in between paragraphs?

"cg

Could you include two carriage returns in between paragraphs?"

what?

Gaspin' Gaskin

Next weeks An Phoblact headline -

"Queens Sinn Feiner describes use of Irish language as "a joke"!"

My, my, my, what will Connolly House say?

As for your "colleaugue". I called him a Provo, because that is exactly what he is - a member of Provisional Sinn Fein. Perhaps if he hadn't sauntered over and attempted to play the hard lad in front of you and your mates, I wouldn't have had cause to have spoken to him at all!

CG

"it was wrong but...."

Game over methinks...

Now, now children if you are going to play at big boys games after school you have to play by big boys rules!

I am a Law student

a Brewster in the making ?

[now that's low ;) ]

{only kidding DB

Any lawyer who has to study law is clearly in the wrong profession. I know I never have. You can't learn to be a genius, as someone once said of George Best.

Had I a reputation worth losing I would seriously consider proceedings davros-as a peer you're bound to be worth a bob or two-or have you spent it all on buying the ermine from David Trimble's discount aristocracy store?

BTW anyone else wanting to be a peer-remember to put out your press release that you're standing for Westminster in Upper Bann, then sit back and wait for the phone to ring...:0)

"Queens Sinn Feiner describes use of Irish language as "a joke"!"

Stalford what a sad child you truly are.
It was a joke to see if you knew it meant South Armagh. Not the language, the only joke around here is you.

"As for your "colleaugue". I called him a Provo, because that is exactly what he is - a member of Provisional Sinn Fein"

Now Christopher we are being flippant.
You know perfectly well that "Provo" means a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army.
It does not mean Provisional Sinn Féin.
Don't try and develop a cohesive argument it suits you much better to shout "Never" and "Sinn Féin/IRA" and such like.
It’s what we have come to expect of you.
He wasn't acting the "hardman" but merely wished to commiserate you on the loss you suffered in the election.

"Game over methinks"
Not by a long shot. You caused the trouble that night and weren’t even man enough to accept responsibility but then again why go against your instincts.

LOL @ Gaskin!!!

cg

"cg

Could you include two carriage returns in between paragraphs?"

what?

It means put line spaces in between your paragraphs so that people can read them without eye-strain. That means hitting twice (i.e. two carriage returns).

Hope that helps.

"He wasn't acting the "hardman" but merely wished to commiserate you on the loss you suffered in the election."

Firstly, I fail to see how I could have lost an election in which I wasn't actually a candidate.

Secondly, the language which he used is entirely run of the mill. Believe it or not, it's like water off a ducks back. Abuse from Provo's (yes you read it correctly Provo's) was hardly anything new for me, but it takes a real big fella to go over and hurl threatening explitives at a girl.

That you should attempt to excuse such behaviour as that displayed by your colleague that night and that which goes on in the Holylands shows what a truly contemptible bunch Queens Sinn Fein really are!

cg/christopher

This spat doesn't bode well for the future devolved administration at Stormont does it?

Dec

Very good! :-P

"Firstly, I fail to see how I could have lost an election in which I wasn't actually a candidate."

You as in DUP, as in the DUP candidate finished last. Hope that jogs your memory.
I never got to thank you for encouraging unionist students to give our candidate a preference.
Those 2nd, 3rd and 4th preferences really helped.
Thanks

"but it takes a real big fella to go over and hurl threatening explitives at a girl."

Which member of Sinn Féin hurled abuse at your fiancée? You have failed to name names or produce any evidence.
Was your fiancée the girl dressed like a nurse because I saw no one go anywhere near either of you.

"That you should attempt to excuse such behavior as that displayed by your colleague that night and that which goes on in the Holy lands shows what a truly contemptible bunch Queens Sinn Fein really are!"

If the comments made about your fiancée did occur I will of course apologize on Behalf of Republicans in queens but seeing as you will not produce evidence I will refrain from doing so.

Secondly.
I have constantly stated on this thread that I condemn any anti-social behavior on the night in question but I will not pander to a Sectarian Bigot like you.

"but I will not pander to a Sectarian Bigot like you."

Having lost the argument comprehensively, Gaskin resorts to the standard republican tactic - accuse your opponent of being sectarian. I have clearly touched a raw nerve and agitated our Provo friends...

My work here is done.

Au revoir!

I don't know if student union politics in Queens sounds deeply depressing or surreally hilarious.

They do say that student politics are the most vicious because there is so little at stake..

Stalford
You couln't produce evidence so you ran away.
typical

"couln't"
Should read couldn't
blasted type key

Provo's

I've got used to Chris Gaskin's complete inability to punctuate properly but such a flagrant misuse of the apostrophe from our budding young neocon really is dispiriting.

And Chris G, you may think it's hip and Republican to be incapable of using English grammar properly, but it's not. It makes you look sloppy and amateurish, not an image I usually associate with SF activists, or one I think you want to cultivate.

If the Law Department at QUB isn't interested in the proper use of grammar, I take your word for it, but I have to say that it shocks me. As a non-lawyer who has to deal with EU legislation on a daily basis, I can attest that sloppy grammar leads to ambiguous laws which cost the EU economy billions every year. It's not big and clever, especially for someone who wants to enter the profession you do. In any case, Irish has a more complex grammar than English, and proper punctuation is at least as important there (although apostrophes are less of an issue!)

I don't understand this Republican hostility to English. It's a beautiful, rich, language which given its international standing we are lucky to be native speakers of. And generally we're better at it than the English or the Yanks, as a brief review of Nobel Literature Prize Winners will prove. Surely there's nothing sweeter than for the colonised to beat the colonisers at their own game?

"I've got used to Chris Gaskin's complete inability to punctuate properly but such a flagrant misuse of the apostrophe from our budding young neocon really is dispiriting."

I reject this totally. I do not have an inability to punctuate, what I do have is little time.
I was always under the impression that Slugger was a political website and not an English test.
Damn you Grammar Fascists!

"And Chris G, you may think it's hip and Republican to be incapable of using English grammar properly"

I don't actually and I can use "ENGLISH GRAMMAR" actually. I do however chose not to and not because I am Republican but because I’m lazy.

"If the Law Department at QUB isn't interested in the proper use of grammar, I take your word for it, but I have to say that it shocks me. As a non-lawyer who has to deal with EU legislation on a daily basis, I can attest that sloppy grammar leads to ambiguous laws which cost the EU economy billions every year. It's not big and clever, especially for someone who wants to enter the profession you do"

They aren’t interested in my lack of good grammar not good grammar in laws.
Tut-Tut, you presume too much my friend.

"I don't understand this Republican hostility to English. It's a beautiful, rich, language which given its international standing we are lucky to be native speakers of."

Bit of an oxymoron seeing as we are Irish and it’s the “English” language.
Please explain how we are “native speakers”?

because I’m lazy.

Goes with being a student ;)

I reject this totally. I do not have an inability to punctuate, what I do have is little time.

Don't we all. But, I mean, there's making the odd mistake - I make plenty - and there's making the same mistake all the time. And it's still not a hip, trendy, student-lefty thing to do.

Bit of an oxymoron seeing as we are Irish and it’s the “English” language.
Please explain how we are “native speakers”?

Deep breath. Yoga techniques. Zen. Think Zen.

OK, Chris, if you go into a pub in Cross, or go into the wee shop in Silverbridge to buy a loaf, what language do you speak? What language did you grow up speaking? And your parents? And your grandparents? And all your ancestors back to about the end of the 18th Century?

"OK, Chris, if you go into a pub in Cross, or go into the wee shop in Silverbridge to buy a loaf"

Don't drink in Cross and don't live in the Bridge.

"What language did you grow up speaking? And your parents? And your grandparents? And all your ancestors back to about the end of the 18th Century?"

It’s not my fault I grew up speaking English. It wasn't a choice I made.
My dad is a fluent Irish speaker. As were my Grandparents. My grandfather refused to speak "like a crow when he was clearly a sparrow". So as for my ancestor's a lot of South Armagh was a Gaeltacht area less than 100 year's ago.

It still doesn't clear up the fact that you referred to me and others in Ireland as "native" speakers of English. My native tongue is Irish.

Just admit you were wrong and we can draw a line in the sand.

Young Fogey, while you are on the topic of grammar, don't you mean that you have gotten used to Chris Gaskin's complete inability to punctuate properly rather than "have got"?

I will no longer even consider responding to these “Grammar Fascists”.
This is a political website not the “You’re being tested on grammar” site.

I'm surprised to hear that your grandfather was a sparrow. That must make for an interesting pedigree.

Your native tongue is the one you learnt on your mother's knee, and like the majority of Irish people that would be English. Get over it.

You're not being tested for your grammar, but as YF said, when you misuse it you just come across as an illiterate amateur. Most of the problems are extra apostrophes, not missing ones - I wonder why it is that people feel the need to take the time to type (or write) an extra completely redundant character like that.

"an extra completely redundant character like that".

I thought this thread wasn't about Trimble :0)

I find most of the spelling/grammar mistakes I make on slugger are as a result of bad typing in a rush rather than not actually knowing what the right way to phrase or spell the sentence is. After all I'm sure there's very few of us who are actually supposed to spend their day looking at this site!

idunnomeself

I don't know if student union politics in Queens sounds deeply depressing or surreally hilarious.

It's a bit of both, but i tend to try to concentrate on the surreal and hilarious. It makes it that bit easier to get up in the morning.

This is a political website

Politics and culture !

Chris , do you see yourself as the John Prescott of SF ? ;)

I doubt he'll thank you for the comparison, Davros!

Christopher Stalford said "My work here is done."

I dunno. I think Slugger's might have been done though, if that is indeed an online conversation between a fully-paid up DUP member and a member of Sinn Fein that I've just read!

With such a portentous omen, by this time next millennium we may even have a power sharing executive... though if yous could manage it by the end of next week, that would be cushty.

"Chris , do you see yourself as the John Prescott of SF ? ;)"

Davros
You are overstepping the mark;)

"I doubt he'll thank you for the comparison, Davros!"

Ps
You know rightly I won’t.

“Christopher Stalford said "My work here is done."
I dunno. I think Slugger's might have been done though, if that is indeed an online conversation between a fully-paid up DUP member and a member of Sinn Fein that I've just read!"

BG
I get on perfectly well with other members of the DUP in queens this year but Stalford is beyond the pale.

Roger,
"an extra completely redundant character like that".

I think you're missing a comma there. Shame on you.