Feeble little Celtic countries?
Last Thursday – St George’s Day, in case you hadn’t noticed – Henry V111’s latest historian David Starkey scorned the idea of making April 23 a proper national holiday on the BBC’s Question Time and added: “If we decide to go down this route of having an English national day, that means we become a feeble little country, just like the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish.
Welsh and Scottish MPs were among those who duly rose to the bait – proving Starkey had a point, maybe? Politics.ie noticed the row and drew the comment:
Chip on the shoulder victimhood never looks good, I think the Scots MPs complaining only play in to the ‘feeble’ portrayal. But, leaving that aside, is he right? Are we stuck in a 19th Century romantic nationalism?
Obviously blinkered English folk like the professional controversialist Starkey have no idea what a marketing opportunity has been created by St Patrick’s week as we must think of it now, not only with the diaspora but with home holidays looking more attractive. The Scots are now bringing up the rear with Scottish Homecoming, if you can stand the midges. English identity is a pallid thing, sidelined by self conscious official promotion of Britishness ( now faltering) and only now being rescued from the BNP. Too many English opinion formers went into a sulk when they discovered that the Celts wanted a bigger say in their own affairs. Perhaps the solution is to tell them we love them dearly and then they’ll feel more secure.
Fuck me lads, if us Celts want to remain significant I propose that we begin to hijack passing ships off our coasts. Let us take to the sea and rise proud again!
Alan Titley – not your average gaeilgeoir – suggested just such a thing in his Irish Times column this week.
Fuck me, who’s Alan Titley? Let’s show those Somalis how it’s really done!
John, I await your blessing and words of sage wisdom before advocating and taking a definitive course of action
“Just as a point of curiosity could the union survive a rise in English Nationalism”
Very much doubt it!
Interesting thread revealing UMH insecurities, don’t recall Pearse being part of the thread, but I suppose you have to attack something, when you’ve nothing.
Highly entertaining, in a kinda boring troll digging deeper sorta way. ie comic value.
can’t wait for the next installment from UMH
Girty Dobshite
The third most dangerous man in Munster – after Wayne Dundon and Roy Keane.
Alan Titley
Feeble little English historians. I like them for breakfast.
…and Sammy if u observe clause 11.2.3a it’s the ratio on the plane that counts. With O’Leary’s injury I reckon Wales are still favourite.
Pearse was devoutly enamoured with the concept of blood sacrifice, seeing self-immolation as a necessary requisite for materializing his nationalist aspirations. While lauding of warfare certainly tends to offend our modern sensibilities (most of us are all too acquainted with the horrors it entails), the political orthodoxy in pre-war Europe held it up in an elevated regard. It is unfair to isolate Pearse’s political views from the political context in which they were expressed. While many statesmen of the Allied Powers were afflicted with a vindictive bloodthirst, Pearse esteemed the martyrdom involved in war as of greater worth than the killing of one’s enemies. It must be remembered that the rationale for his surrender was “in order to prevent the further slaughter of Dublin citizens, and in the hope of saving the lives of our followers”. Pity such laudable sentiments were not shared by the notoriously inclement General Maxwell.
Religious imagery is an inextricable component to Pearse’s thinking. His devotion to the humble circumstances surrounding Christ’s redemption for mankind provides an illustrious animation to his nationalist convictions: “One man can free a people, as one man redeemed the world”. By drawing parallels with the crucifixion of Christ, Pearse is not simply bestowing religious legitimacy on his cause; he is positively sanctifying it. To Pearse it is axiomatic that his endeavours will end in death, but by invoking the words of his Divine Lord (“Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends”), he represents this as a holy and even amative pursuit.
My own persons views on the man are quite conflicted, but I regard UMH’s imputation of fanaticism to be a bit simplistic. I think a balanced person would concede that the primary motivation for his beliefs was a zealous, if perhaps misguided, patriotism, and in many ways his devoted loyalty to what he regarded as a noble cause can be appreciated by persons of very disparate ideological persuasions.
When I think of English culture,it seems that the English don’t know where to position themselves- in order to be politically correct.
History ,Colonialism,slavery,war etc has left them feeling uncomfortable as if the NEW England is now so multi-cultural that tradition is being obliterated.
The country of Shakespeare,Morris Dancing and Colliery brass bands etc……is in danger of allowing the BNP to do for Englishness culturally what Sinn Féin did Irishness,ie – to alienate a large section of the population.
when I think of the danger of this -look at how many young men who are increasingly joining the extremes,because the centre won’t take the bull by the horns.
great comments CO, I see Bobby Sands in there somewhere; there’s something about oppression that makes you want to run at those holding the guns, even though you know you’ll die.
I think Starkey’s “feeble” comment are more indicative of English anger at Scottish politicians and bankers for the current economic crisis than an honest appraisal of Scotland’s performance as a country.
Scotland, Ireland and Wales punch well above their size on the world stage and one would hardly tag them “feeble”.
That said, considering how much Scotland has contributed to the world in terms of science, economics, arts etc., plus its justifiable pride in its rich history, it makes one wonder why they never rowed away from the mother ship and set sail on their own.
Did being British make them achieve less or more as a nation? Do Starkey’s comments reflect a growing English disgust that Scotland is a grown man who is too lazy to leave his mother’s breast and hence is not deserving of an Englishman’s respect or his financial support?
“Just as a point of curiosity could the union survive a rise in English Nationalism”
Currently polls in England show that 60 – 70% favour devolution for England whilst about 20 – 30% favour independance. So in the short term I think we’re looking at devolution rather than a break-up.
Devolution to England is, however, frought with difficulties because of our relative size compared to the other nations. It isn’t impossible though, to ensure that a Federal UK parliament limits the impact that big England has on the other nations, and it would certainly have less impact than it has now.
Having said that, I’m part of the 20 – 30% who favours independance, and I do think the union will break at some point in a couple of decades or so.
Looks like Starkey is afraid that his series on the monarchy won’t make it much past its restoration, much less the Act of Union, given the current economic meltdown.
What better way to reverse the trend than fire up all the Celts!
Trowbridge, You are 100% correct, a few weeks ago he tried to pick an arguement with women, but it didn’t get off the ground.
Having lived in London for many years I’ve seen the sharp year on year increase of people hanging the St George flag on their house or car and ofcourse pubs cashing in on the Saints day.
Any discussion relating to the violent behaviour of the Celts is not complete witohut an exmaination of the Welsh martial art Llap Goch. Http://www.llapgoch.org.uk/
Dewi – bore da, are we to add contemptuous backsliding to the many attribute we associate with your Nation. I put it to you Sir – that you are indeed such a backslider. Shame.
re.Lions
What you said a week ago. forgive me – but ain’t got much time: Very sorry to digress Sammy but: i) A fiver on more Welsh players than Irish in thr Lions squad tomorrow and: ii) A fiver on more Welsh players than Irish in first test starting line -up?
What you said yesterday. …and Sammy if u observe clause 11.2.3a it’s the ratio on the plane that counts. With O’Leary’s injury I reckon Wales are still favourite.
p.s. I will call the grippers off until after the test team is announced.
exile 1,
Scotland, Ireland and Wales punch well above their size on the world stage and one would hardly tag them “feeble”.
Well perhaps on the boxing stage ? We in Ireland have at least one world boxing champion and in Dublin we have that young Taylor girl (even if her dad’s English ) who has great hopes of an Olympic Gold ?
And then there’s the Lions rugby Team representing all the four ‘home countries ‘ on their upcoming tour to South Africa – captained by Irishman Paul O’Connell and is made up of 14 Irish , 13 Welsh , 8 English and 6 Scots
I guess I have to agree that the Scots are the feeblest . Not since the Battle of Bannockburn have the Scots put up much of a fight against the Sassenachs apart from that Bonnie Prince Charlie escapade
“made up of 14 Irish , 13 Welsh , 8 English and 6 Scots”…see above – it’s down to 13 Irish…and was only ever 2 Scots.
Hijack hijack hijack! Then we need to withdraw Tom Jones, Hugo Duncan, the Scottish brogue and Riverdance from the world stage just to show little Starkers how much of a blow it would be to the world to have less Celtic culture.
I will reserve implementation of such a policy until I have I the blessing of Mr. John O’Connell. John, I invite you to take the floor.
Starkey is the same asshole who didn’t want to repeal the act of settlement whereby catholics can ascend to the english throne because it would break with tradition; major league bigot.
Catholic Observer.
re. Pearce as a Vampire. Taken from the ‘Unpublished Joyce’.
The fellah Pearce was indeed a great man for the blood and could often be seen in his early years in the bejaysus of the evening leaning polewards in O’Donoghues and compiling sphericals of the red stuff for the propulsion of it in the close proximity of and in conjunction with the mouth-nasal-phlegm that the Dublin Volunteers kept for such occasions as per the Green Book and spitting it through the open window so that it would rest slimewards on the underside of the passing constabulalies eye socket before taking himself off towards the cathedral to find some unsupecting full-blooded-strumpette upon which he would greedily refill for the enticing repitition of his rebellious habits
Stop, Gobshite, stop! Some things are beyond a joke. Without Hugo Duncan there would be no point in the world going on. It would be akin to a cultural nuclear winter were the world to be deprived of such talent.
All together now:
“Diddley-ay-dey-di-dey”, (or something like that).
dewi ,
‘was only ever 2 Scots. ‘
My mistake Dewi must have been an earlier wishful thinking press release by the Daily Haggis ;?
The question is why only 2 . The Scots have one of the best kickers – Patterson ?
Anyway the South Africans will be no pushovers .
I’m sure that Sakkie van der Britbasher will relish the prospect of kicking Irish , Welsh and Scottish ass with a little extra oomph reserved for the rea ends of our English team mates eh ?
what does pearse have to do with this thread?
Did anyone see Question Time last Night.(1st March) I thought the attitude and the remarks of David Starkey were extremely rude and offensive. Not only did he offend the French, women and other members of the audience but he also tried to humiliate the host. His arguments had a cold logic but the same cold logic has often been use by tyrants and dictators in the past.