“I think preference should be given to people from Northern Ireland..”
Previously Sinn Féin argued that some migrant workers were the wrong sort of Catholics for the purposes of monitoring workforce equality. Now the DUP’s Sammy Wilson, MP, MLA, Northern Ireland Environment Minister, is arguing that they should be discriminated against in favour of “people from Northern Ireland.” Below the fold his party colleague, Jeffrey Donaldson, MP, MLA, NI junior Minister, chips in to claim that “I think Sammy has a fair point.. we’re not talking about discrimination, we’re talking about economic reality.” Except that, as Kevin Sharkey notes at the end of this clip – his full report on the NI economy is here – the Equality Commission has pointed out that discrimination on the basis of race or nationality is unlawful. And doesn’t the NI junior Minister’s brief cover equality issues? Or is that the wrong sort of equality.. Of course within the EU freedom of movement of goods, persons [including workers], services, and capital are fundamental to the common market. Or, as the European Commission website puts it, “Every citizen of the EU has the right to work and live in another Member State without being discriminated against on grounds of nationality.”
NI junior Minister, the DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson, backs his party colleague, Sammy Wilson.
So what you’re saying is that because something happens to be the law then if anyone suggests the law needs to be changed then they should be sacked.
Feel free to highlight in my post where I said that. I merely pointed out what Sammy is proposing is not ‘perfectly legal’, as you described it. Personally I’d prefer if elected representatives didn’t come across as ignorant bar room bigots every time they opened their fat traps.
Someone from a centre-right party can’t go near such issues. Gordon Brown can talk about British jobs and Frank Field can highlight issues but no one from a centre-right position can do the same. It’s a basic rule of political communication – the rights or wrongs of it don’t matter. Careful caveats of ‘equal skills’ don’t work either as they get ignored sifted out.
The basis for Sammy’s statement ‘equal skills’ seems to bear some relationship to legislation presently proposed for GB but it is for under-represented groups, something that cannot be argued for local people in the local labour market.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7474801.stm
However, over the years Unionism has broadly opposed positive discrimination measures e.g. police recruitment so I think Sammy is plain wrong on this one.
I trust also the Equality Commission given their stated opposition to such proposals will not advocate the adoption of comparable measures to those proposed in GB. Although considering the EC’s inability to practice what it preaches that can’t be taken for granted either.
‘He (Wilson) said it made sense to give PREFERENCE to people “with roots here”.
And maybe David Trimble’s relations who he whinged about will be told to go home so that they do not take anything from the likes of Gregory Campbell’s relation who suffered here in the famine when Ulster was losing 198 per 1000 of its population.
“I merely pointed out what Sammy is proposing is not ‘perfectly legal’”
And I merely pointed out that it is perfectly legal for Sammy Wilson to express his opinions, however picador (and I assumed by extension you too, if I am wrong I apologise) felt that the man should lose his livelihood for daring to express his opinions. This is an intolerant viewpoint which I find is becoming more and more prevalent these days.
I’m a believer in free speech myself, people like me seem to be a dying breed, to me it’s simple; if you don’t like Sammy’s opinions, well here’s a wee suggestion; don’t vote for him.
Otherwise respect freedom of speech.
It all boils down to the same situation as Iris’ remarks against gay people. They’re both arses, and their opinions are more os less mirror opposites of mine on most issues, and they may or may not lose their jobs when we decide whether or not to reward them with a vote.
I would hope that Iris comes to realise that the gay community have some sway, in the same way that many families will have a problem with Sammy’s remarks, and this may hurt them both at the polls, but I have a feeling that these kind of statements help their chances of re-election as opposed to hindering them.
Bottom line, we get the politicians we deserve. Grim.
Fair Deal, do yourself a favour and give up trying to reason the unreasonable.
The first-they-came approach doesn’t really work in NI for very obvious reasons. See it as a threat then people are already on the back foot, see competition as a chance to succeed by winning then this is an altogether different story.
Sammy should just get down to the fact by admitting that he is really having difficulty mobilising positively the socially immobile in those stubborn negative-minded pockets of his constituency; so, instead he wants an easy option of preferential treatment.
I suppose I could go along with him in so far as overseas investment should stay overseas and not be placed in NI. Is Wilson writing to Nortel now telling them to F-off? FDI for locals only – how very contradictory.
The DUP just doesn’t get the essential characteristics of today’s world, and after the embarassment of Fermanagh – where Foster double/trebled jobbed herself against her very own legislative instructions to do away with it – I feel embarassed for Unionism and the nitwits that purport to support it, especially the DUP and all its works.
Utterly scundered for you lot. I really am. Why don’t you just say you have no confidence, can’t compete, not up to sratch – so bog off those that have fought to get up to speed in the employment market who aren’t really N Irish.
“I have a feeling that these kind of statements help their chances of re-election as opposed to hindering them.”
There are few gay votes here,
it is fruitcake politics, at the moment they’re fighting ( amongst themselves) over ‘Queer’ and ‘Gay’ terms
It is a bit like child protection, the Brits make a planned virtue out of incompetence.
“In many instances, the presence of a hazard – an unguarded vertical drop, a wobbly bridge – is potentially to be welcomed.”
What can one do with that kind of thing?
Gay politics are for the misguided.
It’ll go very wrong.
Gregory
Official guidance: ‘Let children eat poisonous plants’ – Telegraph
22 Jan 2009 … It adds: “In many instances, the presence of a hazard – an unguarded vertical drop, a wobbly bridge – is potentially to be welcomed. …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/4308814/Official-guidance-Let-children-eat-poisonous-plants.html
“Repeat please”
I’ve always liked the Poles, they’re reliable Catholics, point one, the Warsaw Uprising, Battle of Britain, I’ve a lot of time for them.
Attacking the Whites during the Russian civil war wasn’t perhaps the smartest.
I always said they’d bounce between Chicago, London, Dublin or go home. From a housing point of view, they can leave it 10 percent empty or over-crowded.
Gregory
‘He (Wilson) said it made sense to give PREFERENCE to people “with roots here”.
And just how far back should those ‘roots’ go? 400 years? More ?
David Vance, the ‘problem’ is that we’re not ‘all Europeans now’. Each state remains responsible for the welfare of its own citizens. That is why the state must act to promote the interests of its own citizens above the interests of other member states of the EU. Migrant workers function as economic units that export capital from the host country to their country of origin. In cases where workers from the host country can do the work, then the host must favour its own workers. Under EU law, that can only occur in the public sector. Why does it matter? It matters because those countries will still be required to pay the pensions of its retired workers, pay for education of children, healthcare, etc, and to generate the revenue to all of those provide public services. The state then confers a burden upon its own citizens but does not offer its own citizens preference in employment to allow them to generate the income needed to meet that burden. The migrant worker, on the other hand, will not be required to meet the burden of the host state after he has departed with his loot. Therefore, folks need to question this duality of citizenship that allows folks to flit from one boom to another, depriving the host nation of the advantages of that boom. The salient question of whether or not the migrant worker’s services are required by the state becomes irrelevant under EU law because the state is prevented from asking it: the state must simply suck it up, and then pay for the social welfare of the migrant worker if he or she decides to expire its social welfare entitlements become he or she departs to the next boom (if they can locate one). If, as some seem to do, assume that “we are all Europeans now” then it follows that the citizens of one state should work longer hours and pay more taxes in order to pay the pensions and social entitlements of citizens in another state. Ask them to do that and they will instantly return the response that “but we are NOT all Europeans now” and that each state must look after its own citizens. That is leftist muppets having their cake and eating it.
And I merely pointed out that it is perfectly legal for Sammy Wilson to express his opinions, however picador (and I assumed by extension you too, if I am wrong I apologise) felt that the man should lose his livelihood for daring to express his opinions.
Harry
I’m no legal expert but if he was speaking in an official capacity he may will be contravening section 75 of the Govt of Northern Ireland act which ensures public offices promote equality.
That being said, the mindset that tries to promote dangerous garbage like this without any thought of repurcussions (ie people from Northern ireland living abroad suddenly losing their jobs) is deeply depressing.
I’m a believer in free speech myself, people like me seem to be a dying breed
Next time you board a plane, jike with the stewardess that you’re carrying a bomb and see where freedom of speech gets you.
Further to my point that “migrant workers function as economic units that export capital from the host country to their country of origin.”
[i]POLISH workers here are expected to send more money home than ever this year despite the economic downturn, with some commentators believing it will top €2bn.
Last year, Poles sent €1.33bn home from Ireland, according to the Polish Central Bank, NBP. But the bank estimates the figure this year will reach €1.87bn — despite anecdotal evidence that Eastern European workers are leaving Ireland because of a fall-off in jobs, especially in the construction sector.
However, the actual figure may be higher. Two-thirds of Poles in Ireland send money home, but just 46pc use a bank account to do so. Others use specialist transfer firms such as Western union, or take it home on flights themselves. [/i]
In the Irish context of FDI policy where the State pays foreign companies tens of thousands of Irish taxpayers’ money per job to create jobs in this country, and where these foreign companies can then employ foreign workers under EU regulations, this totally defeats the policy of the Irish State.
If the Poles are extracting €1.87bn from the Irish economy annually (and far higher in reality as these figures from the Polish Central Bank do not include cash carried out), then other migrant groups are doing the same pro rata.
This policy is simply deranged. So, well done to Sammy Wilson for stirring some public debate on the issue as it relates to NI. We can’t leave real-world economics to the sentimental vagaries and vanities of left-wing muppets, can we? I mean, how would the State ever be able to generate the revenue to pay their dole?
If Sammy is so worried about locals loosing out to foreigners maybe he could do something about those cringeworthy C’mon Over adds you see on Ryanair and the Belfast Telegraph.
“Next time you board a plane, jike with the stewardess that you’re carrying a bomb and see where freedom of speech gets you.”
A completely and utterly and stratospherically unrelated and irrelevant piece of nonsensical straw man erecting.
But I see I was initially correct, you do feel the man should lose his job and perhaps even face criminal prosecution for expressing perfectly unremarkable opinions. Me, I’m more liberal than that.
Harry
A completely and utterly and stratospherically unrelated and irrelevant piece of nonsensical straw man erecting.
Calm down old girl. It’s a modern version of shouting ‘Fire’ in a crowded theatre.
and simply illustrates that freedom of speech doesn’t actually exist and that it’s not necessarily a good thing.
Of course there’s no point arguing with you since you seem unable to develop any argument more sophisticated than ‘At least he says what he thinks’ (btw you seem unable to extend this courtesy to those that feel Wilson should be penalised for his anti-equality outburst.
But I see I was initially correct, you do feel the man should lose his job and perhaps even face criminal prosecution for expressing perfectly unremarkable opinions
If he’s broke the law then yes. If he hasn’t then no. Though how anyone who claims they don’t agree with his views could describe his comments as ‘perfectly unremarkable’ is beyond me.
Dave, are you advocating EU-wide tax raising proposals per chance, a little more harmonisation on the way?
Of course you forget entirely that the EU can recoup money via membership fees from those states that were once beneficaries. So, then, in contrast, these states become net contributors; this can lessen the strain on the likes of the UK, when, for example, those circumstances that you raise occur.
The thing about shouting “fire!” in a crowded theatre that most people seem to forget is that if you genuinely believe there to be a fire not only is it permissible to shout “fire!” it is indeed your absolute duty to shout “fire!”.
If Sammy believes that local people should get preference for local jobs that to me is not particularly remarkable and whilst I disagree with him I most certainly do not believe it is the job of the thought police to silence him.
I’m a liberal, you are not.